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Feynt

My short list of things that must be in this game

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Butthurt. Butthurt never changes.

Didn't know you swung that way, sailor. I've got some friends you can meet up with if that's your thing.

But, for some reason, we are using pitiful and ineffective firearms instead of deadly, fast and silent slings.

The difference is just like crossbows versus bows. One requires skill and training to use on the order of months to years, the other can be given to any random person and used somewhat effectively. Back in the day, an army of English longbowmen were the superior of most ranged units in combat. But training up and arming them was far less cost effective than making a crossbow, handing it to some schmuck, and drafting him into service for king and country.

 

My money's still on the guy with the sling if there's terrain to abuse. Plus handguns run out of ammunition, slings basically use whatever's fist sized or smaller that happens to be laying about.

The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim).

Are you on drugs or just retarded? Not that I really care, just asking out of curiosity.

Don't believe me, look it up. Most sites quote the foot range, where 50 feet is about 15m. However books in your library and your local gun club can verify this approximate range too. That is, if research doesn't hurt you too much.

 

Addendum:

 

I admit to laziness and didn't go out of my way to find an example to support swords vs. staves, but someone else provided a "this is how polearms work" video elsewhere and off of that was a spear vs. sword video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O8RWLxlzTiM

 

A staff is used much like a spear, except poking with it is non-lethal. A hunk of wood to the face is still enough to knock you on your ass though. In the video, the swordsman gets a few point wins, but by and large the significant reach advantage the spear has wins most of the engagements. And this is the european style of spear fighting, some asian martial arts focus on parry/riposte combat styles while others teach fast, broad swings in a circular motion and sudden stabs from that momentum to keep your foes at bay.

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The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim).

Are you on drugs or just retarded? Not that I really care, just asking out of curiosity.

Don't believe me, look it up. Most sites quote the foot range, where 50 feet is about 15m. However books in your library and your local gun club can verify this approximate range too. That is, if research doesn't hurt you too much.

 

But does that research include stats on range and accuracy when you hold that handgun "gangsta style"? Wouldn't that be much more effective just due to it's badass awesome kewlness?? :biggrin: (snicker)


Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Addendum:

 

I admit to laziness and didn't go out of my way to find an example to support swords vs. staves, but someone else provided a "this is how polearms work" video elsewhere and off of that was a spear vs. sword video:

...

A staff is used much like a spear, except poking with it is non-lethal. A hunk of wood to the face is still enough to knock you on your ass though. In the video, the swordsman gets a few point wins, but by and large the significant reach advantage the spear has wins most of the engagements. And this is the european style of spear fighting, some asian martial arts focus on parry/riposte combat styles while others teach fast, broad swings in a circular motion and sudden stabs from that momentum to keep your foes at bay.

Staff and spear are different things. And "non-lethal poking" with staff against opponent protected with atleast gambeson and simple helmet will do almost nothing. Hell, we brake a large bunch of wooden shafts against each others armor on last training. It was lot of fun, and no injuries. Why are you "kung-fu" guys missing out an obvious fact that martial arts there developed as an answer to govermental ban of convention weapon?

And a couple words about video: on 0.29 this is what they qualified as hit? If it is, then those guys even more softcore than our LARPers...

Edited by Comedian

Is nomine vacans liberarit vobis ex servitut.

Is nomine vacans redit vobis ars magica.

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  1. Weapon wise, a staff must be a valid form of weaponry. A talented martial artist (eastern or western arts) skilled with a staff is the equal of a swordsman. There is more to holding a staff about the middle and swinging it left and right until things fall down, and seeing the majority of RPGs disregard staves as weapons only a mage would use or relegate them to magical foci and nothing more is disheartening. Again, my gratitude if staves (and other weapons of course) can parry intrinsically as part of the skill to use them, and allow for riposte.

 

A staff actually has an advantage over a sword due to its greater reach, versatilty and relative cost. I'd like to see some justice for this weapon as well.

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Thoughts:

  • Need beer! Ale! Mead! Don't make it some weird named drink please....
  • You shouldn't start seeing weird colors if you drink ale, it's not LSD
  • It should inhibit your int slightly, but you should be able to handle 1 or 2 with little penalty

Everything else in the game, I care little about.

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Butthurt. Butthurt never changes.

Didn't know you swung that way, sailor. I've got some friends you can meet up with if that's your thing.

But, for some reason, we are using pitiful and ineffective firearms instead of deadly, fast and silent slings.

The difference is just like crossbows versus bows. One requires skill and training to use on the order of months to years, the other can be given to any random person and used somewhat effectively. Back in the day, an army of English longbowmen were the superior of most ranged units in combat. But training up and arming them was far less cost effective than making a crossbow, handing it to some schmuck, and drafting him into service for king and country.

 

My money's still on the guy with the sling if there's terrain to abuse. Plus handguns run out of ammunition, slings basically use whatever's fist sized or smaller that happens to be laying about.

The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim).

Are you on drugs or just retarded? Not that I really care, just asking out of curiosity.

Don't believe me, look it up. Most sites quote the foot range, where 50 feet is about 15m. However books in your library and your local gun club can verify this approximate range too. That is, if research doesn't hurt you too much.

 

Addendum:

 

I admit to laziness and didn't go out of my way to find an example to support swords vs. staves, but someone else provided a "this is how polearms work" video elsewhere and off of that was a spear vs. sword video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O8RWLxlzTiM

 

A staff is used much like a spear, except poking with it is non-lethal. A hunk of wood to the face is still enough to knock you on your ass though. In the video, the swordsman gets a few point wins, but by and large the significant reach advantage the spear has wins most of the engagements. And this is the european style of spear fighting, some asian martial arts focus on parry/riposte combat styles while others teach fast, broad swings in a circular motion and sudden stabs from that momentum to keep your foes at bay.

I will always enjoy youtube videos of martial arts. I think this video also demonstrates quite well how important reach is. (in RL, not sure about the game)

Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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I will always enjoy youtube videos of martial arts. I think this video also demonstrates quite well how important reach is. (in RL, not sure about the game)

 

Yeah, that was a good watch. I really hope reach weapons will be in PE.

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Because only furries use Khajiit right... sure... :getlost:
Exactly. :yes:

Only now notice your username.

So, yeah, nevermind, move along people...

 

Aaaaand... I think magic should be RARE and indeed more potent than non-magic items. That's why it's magic. No more magic items popping out from every little nook like the end of BG2 or pretty much every aRPG.


^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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But does that research include stats on range and accuracy when you hold that handgun "gangsta style"? Wouldn't that be much more effective just due to it's badass awesome kewlness?? :biggrin: (snicker)

Even the Mythbusters proved that gangsta style is ineffective as a firing technique (satisfying as it is). Of course this is a game, the +2 to intimidation or badassery of holding your blunderbuss sideways while you cap a mofo would definitely be worth it. >)

 

Staff and spear are different things. And "non-lethal poking" with staff against opponent protected with atleast gambeson and simple helmet will do almost nothing. Hell, we brake a large bunch of wooden shafts against each others armor on last training. It was lot of fun, and no injuries. Why are you "kung-fu" guys missing out an obvious fact that martial arts there developed as an answer to govermental ban of convention weapon?

And a couple words about video: on 0.29 this is what they qualified as hit? If it is, then those guys even more softcore than our LARPers...

 

Staves are still capable of disorienting an armoured opponent with a swift strike to the head, or unbalancing an opponent by tripping them or simply levering them over if you manage to get in close enough (admittedly ruining the reach advantage, but whatever. Fights are never clean). Yes, some martial arts were mostly formed out of necessity to overthrow an oppressive government which outlawed weaponry, or simply defend themselves against bandits when such restrictions were in place. Capoeira, eskrima, and jiujitsu as examples. Some martial arts however are not, among them ranks any sword based martial art (even classic European fencing is a martial art, but there's Asian, African, and native North and South American sword styles as well), as well as kung fu in general (shaolin kung fu was practiced by monks embraced by the government, not hindered by it). It should also be mentioned there's a big difference between random sticks you find in the woods and swing against plastic armour (or metal, if you happen to be a rich LARPer) designed specifically to resist impacts (because no one brings piercing weapons to LARP groups), versus treated wood carved out into a pole and possibly reinforced with a metal core. If a simple shinai, the bamboo sword used in kendo, still hurts through the protective head gear, imagine what a weighted chunk of wood about a meter longer would do when swung with purpose.

 

As for the video, it's a point combat system. You'll also note neither of them is trying to knock the other over or skewer the other, nor do they commit themselves to full attacks (except in one case where the swordsman got tired of being poked and rushed forward to engage). Simple contact constitutes victory. LARP doesn't have this type of system, typically in LARP you go until you receive a proper wallop, and then excuse yourself (limping or otherwise) from the battlefield. But the video does display the advantage of reach, and pointy end or no, a stick to the face is a stick to the face (or to the gut, groin, back, whatever).

Edited by Feynt

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OP:

 

1) I think part of the reason why Beastial races aren't usual is that they often require extra animations in addition to the normal ones because their physiology is different. In terms of actual in world realism though, if a game is going to include beast races, I'd much rather have it so they weren't *specific* beast races. So, no cat-race please. Sure have a bestial race which has certain cat-like features, but don't just stick the head (or worse, just ears) and skin of animal A onto a human body, maybe with backwards legs and a tail. Make something that captures the essence of the animals it's based on while not being too heavy handed, like something that could have actually evolved 9or been created) into sentience.

 

2) I'm all for that, but to a point - in answer to another poster, yes they weren't used in battle, but they were carried by travellers to protect themselves from attackers. As our party is presumably more like travellers than an army a lot of the time, I'd perfectly happy for staves to be a valid weapon - perhaps they dont do as much damage as a broadsword, but do offer some defensive bonuses. Besides, if you put some metal caps on the ends of a staff with a little bit of weight to them, thats potentially a mace with 6ft of leverage to magnify the power....

 

3) I think the basic idea is that non-magical stuff isn't bad, but magical stuff may be better, which is fine by me within context. If you are using that rope to tie up a bandit that's fine, but if you are tying up an ogre, you might want to break out the magical one. Similarly, a more skilled fighter using normal stuff should generally beat a less skilled one with magical stuff (unless of course the magic enhances his skills..).

 

4) Sounds fine to me, though I'm not sure how much screentime it'd get unless you could develop your monk down a drunken master route :p

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But does that research include stats on range and accuracy when you hold that handgun "gangsta style"? Wouldn't that be much more effective just due to it's badass awesome kewlness?? :biggrin: (snicker)

Even the Mythbusters proved that gangsta style is ineffective as a firing technique (satisfying as it is). Of course this is a game, the +2 to intimidation or badassery of holding your blunderbuss sideways while you cap a mofo would definitely be worth it. >)

 

Sorry I thought the (snicker) would suffice for a pair of {sarcasm} tags indicating that I might be well aware of how silly that whole "gangsta" shooting style is with or without the whole pants falling down in the midst of battle severely limiting the opportunity to move freely issue... :disguise:


Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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