Jump to content
adamsorkin

13 levels is auspicious for the mega dungeon...

Recommended Posts

They should just keep it at 13 and make level 13 the biggest, meanest, nastiest dungeon level...


An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.

- Buddha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 13 lvl dungeon is almost a game unto itself, like a Legend of Grimrock within another game...well except isometric and all that other stuff, but you get the idea. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just really, really want it to have the narrative strength of Durlag's Tower. Maybe not the bazillion traps, though...

 

If it ends up more like Watcher's Keep, I may still go in. It was just so terribly boring to me and not compelling at all, even despite the decent combat. :(


The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 13 lvl dungeon is almost a game unto itself, like a Legend of Grimrock within another game...well except isometric and all that other stuff, but you get the idea. :-)

 

Heh, wasn't the original Diablo 15 levels deep, excluding a few side-levels and the final boss floor? :p

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It kInd of sounds like a bit too much. Maybe you'll only be able to tackle the levels a few at a time or something, but Watcher's Keep was a very satisfying length at only 5 levels. 13 sounds a little too crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That reminds me of the first Arc the Lad "infinite dungeon". I can't remember how deep I was able to get, but it sure was down very, very low, something like 50 levels.


« Celui qui est consumé par la flamme de la justice ne craint ni le ciel, ni l’enfer ; il n’est qu’une arme attendant le jour de sa mort ». (Paul Murphy, l'Enclave, 1971)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see it something that you build up to completion over the course of your playthrough. As you progress in side quests in main quests you become powerful enough to tackle lower levels little by little. This is great in reducing the monotony of going down floor after floor after floor in your quest to complete the dungeon.

 

But, there are other ways to set up the flow of completion. I have some faith in the developers ability to setup the system that works well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see it something that you build up to completion over the course of your playthrough. As you progress in side quests in main quests you become powerful enough to tackle lower levels little by little. This is great in reducing the monotony of going down floor after floor after floor in your quest to complete the dungeon.

 

But, there are other ways to set up the flow of completion. I have some faith in the developers ability to setup the system that works well.

 

It would be interesting if to access certain levels, or tiers, you would have to bring a particular artifact from somewhere else in the game world. It could become a fun mechanism for pacing the dungeon & also potentially providing a chance to delve deeper into lore of the setting and research. It could also be tedious if done the wrong way, or for people who just want to storm through.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see it something that you build up to completion over the course of your playthrough. As you progress in side quests in main quests you become powerful enough to tackle lower levels little by little. This is great in reducing the monotony of going down floor after floor after floor in your quest to complete the dungeon.

 

But, there are other ways to set up the flow of completion. I have some faith in the developers ability to setup the system that works well.

 

It would be interesting if to access certain levels, or tiers, you would have to bring a particular artifact from somewhere else in the game world. It could become a fun mechanism for pacing the dungeon & also potentially providing a chance to delve deeper into lore of the setting and research. It could also be tedious if done the wrong way, or for people who just want to storm through.

That was one way I was looking at it. Another way is sort of a mix of things. Monsters are too hard on a floor so you need to come back. The next time an artifact is missing that is used to unlock the door to delve deeper. So to proceed you must take all the previous clues you have learned from your exploration so far (these clues change per playthrough for randomness) to find this long lost artifact. The next is a puzzle based system that you need to work through to keep proceeding. Lots of different ways to set it up so that the pacing is right (hopefully), and it isn't just something that you can clear at the middle, or at the end, for no real reason. i want a reason to explore this monstrosity. Some might just want to clear it all at once though. It is a delicate mix of what to do and what not to do to try and please the people.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm honestly kinda worried about it. I mean, I don't know how they can possibly make a dungeon that large, that actually makes sense. I guess it could just be a haven for monsters/enemies, which get progressively stronger the lower you go. That way, it acts as a constant source of "training", where you can gauge your progress in the game, sorta like Watcher's Keep. But 14- that's just crazy.

 

I am really hoping that the leveling system for PE will allow for this dungeon to be fully explored without ruining potential to import your protaganist from PE into PE2 due to level cap, but with another huge city being implemented now as well as having one already, plus a stronghold, am I crazy in thinking that there will be too much content for a carryover into PE2!?!?

Edited by Liquid_Silver11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting if to access certain levels, or tiers, you would have to bring a particular artifact from somewhere else in the game world. It could become a fun mechanism for pacing the dungeon & also potentially providing a chance to delve deeper into lore of the setting and research. It could also be tedious if done the wrong way, or for people who just want to storm through.

 

I definitely like this idea. There could be a number of "barriers" that prevent going further down the dungeon unless a quest item is brought or a specific quest is completed. Having an outside plot item relate to the dungeon would a nice way to tie it up to the rest of the world.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm honestly kinda worried about it. I mean, I don't know how they can possibly make a dungeon that large, that actually makes sense. I guess it could just be a haven for monsters/enemies, which get progressively stronger the lower you go. That way, it acts as a constant source of "training", where you can gauge your progress in the game, sorta like Watcher's Keep. But 14- that's just crazy.

 

I am really hoping that the leveling system for PE will allow for this dungeon to be fully explored without ruining potential to import your protaganist from PE into PE2 due to level cap, but with another huge city being implemented now as well as having one already, plus a stronghold, am I crazy in thinking that there will be too much content for a carryover into PE2!?!?

honestly I would be fine with this dungeon not giving experience aside from any levels that are included in the main story. Story and loot seem like fine rewards for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm honestly kinda worried about it. I mean, I don't know how they can possibly make a dungeon that large, that actually makes sense. I guess it could just be a haven for monsters/enemies, which get progressively stronger the lower you go. That way, it acts as a constant source of "training", where you can gauge your progress in the game, sorta like Watcher's Keep. But 14- that's just crazy.

 

I am really hoping that the leveling system for PE will allow for this dungeon to be fully explored without ruining potential to import your protaganist from PE into PE2 due to level cap, but with another huge city being implemented now as well as having one already, plus a stronghold, am I crazy in thinking that there will be too much content for a carryover into PE2!?!?

That depends on how the carryover system works (depending on how they do it). I have seen some where it is only your choices that matter. They take the choices you made in the first game, and base the starting and reactions of others in the new game. Some will do a full import (I believe) but you are back to level 1. You keep things like gold and other random stuff.

 

If they implemented something like this I could see them carrying over things like your fortress and your reputation based off of choices and whatnot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm honestly kinda worried about it. I mean, I don't know how they can possibly make a dungeon that large, that actually makes sense. I guess it could just be a haven for monsters/enemies, which get progressively stronger the lower you go. That way, it acts as a constant source of "training", where you can gauge your progress in the game, sorta like Watcher's Keep. But 14- that's just crazy.

 

I am really hoping that the leveling system for PE will allow for this dungeon to be fully explored without ruining potential to import your protaganist from PE into PE2 due to level cap, but with another huge city being implemented now as well as having one already, plus a stronghold, am I crazy in thinking that there will be too much content for a carryover into PE2!?!?

honestly I would be fine with this dungeon not giving experience aside from any levels that are included in the main story. Story and loot seem like fine rewards for it.

 

It also depends to a great deal on how the leveling system works and the relative power difference between, for example, a 12th level character and a 15th level character. I always thought that was one of the weakest parts of all D&D systems; the power curve. If in the PE system the difference between those two example levels has more to do with having more options in combat and skills while not moving towards invulnerability, I don't think that level caps and game balancing will be as much of an issue. I really would like to see Obsidian avoid level caps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid a mega dungeon this big will break the game. Think about it: in order to make players want to explore it the dungeon has to have exceedingly worthwhile rewards the farther down you go, which typically means housing some of the best items; weapons, armor, or whatever floats your boat. Is this dungeon going to be meant to be optional, or integral towards beating the game? It sounds like it's going to be optional, which means the main story quests and final battles will be balanced to be beatable by those who didn't go through this huge dungeon, and will probably be easy as hell for those that do. Therefore players are highly encouraged to explore the dungeon if they want the best loot, but are likely to just cruise through the ending afterwards.

 

I'm not saying it will happen exactly like this, just that I'm worried it will cause a host of balancing issues. This dungeon is more than twice the size of Watcher's Keep, what kind of goodies will need to be put in it to make it worthwhile to players other than on their first playthrough and what ramifications will this have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not saying it will happen exactly like this, just that I'm worried it will cause a host of balancing issues. This dungeon is more than twice the size of Watcher's Keep, what kind of goodies will need to be put in it to make it worthwhile to players other than on their first playthrough and what ramifications will this have?

 

Balancing would be my primary worry too. Both xp gain and loot.

 

On the other hand, it would be easier to balance in terms of the proposed back-loaded objectives xp mechanism. :p Like so--only a few quests, so not too much xp, which means the only other point is loot, which should be very cool but the game at whatever set difficulty level shouldn't require the loot to finish the main storyline.

 

It'll be fun to see how this development puzzle turns out. Usually a giant dungeon crawl is the game. In PE.... Huh.

Edited by Ieo

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as a possible PE2 goes they should take the BG route: the only thing you take with you is a pair of pants. No, not the pants you were wearing... the other pair... the ones you were supposed to wash for the guy waaaay back in chapter 2 but never got around to.

 

Yeah, those pants. :devil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think about it: in order to make players want to explore it the dungeon has to have exceedingly worthwhile rewards the farther down you go, which typically means housing some of the best items; weapons, armor, or whatever floats your boat.

 

There's almost 50 high level epic top end items from players alone, and that doesn't include paypal backers. And then there's all the items the devs are gonna be putting in. Then factor in that the megadungeon is so big that they can't make the whole time end game content. Very likely it'll be something we do some of and come back for more after we level some more. That means the top end gear won't even be until the last few levels anyways.

 

There'll be plenty of loot to be had in the megadungeon, yes, but there will be plenty of high end loot to be found elsewhere as well. I'm more worried about them having enough time and money to fit in all the gear and npcs and quests they have planned. :)

Edited by Blackstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious how big each level will be. I am having a hard time imagining a dungeon with levels as big as say Watcher's Keep that is this deep. That would be, almost, it's own separate game just by itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...