Multi-touch and multi-screen

[Micru]

Any plans to implement these technologies? In BGEE multi-touch support will be available, I don't know about multiple screens, though it would be nice to have the option to configure what to display on each screen. Screen 1 and 2 game port view, screen 3 inventory, screen 4 journal :D

[AwesomeOcelot]

Touch screen support would be a waste of time if they're not planning to port to iOS or Android, and at this time they aren't. People have been asking for multi-screen support, no answers yet.

[Micru]

Touch screen support would be a waste of time if they're not planning to port to iOS or Android, and at this time they aren't. People have been asking for multi-screen support, no answers yet.

 

Windows 8 is going to have touchscreen support, so I don't see it as such a waste of time. Besides, if they are going to use Unity 3D, a port to Android or iPad should be quite easy and it could be expected.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Touch screen support would be a waste of time if they're not planning to port to iOS or Android, and at this time they aren't. People have been asking for multi-screen support, no answers yet.

 

Windows 8 is going to have touchscreen support, so I don't see it as such a waste of time. Besides, if they are going to use Unity 3D, a port to Android or iPad should be quite easy and it could be expected.

 

Windows 8 is meant for tablets, they've made great efforts with the UI, shunning the standard mouse driven interface, but that doesn't mean people are going to use it. They'll either turn metro off, stick with Windows 7, or switch to OSX or Ubuntu.

 

The thing is Android tablets and iPad's don't have the power to run PC games, it's not going to be easy to port, there's going to be quite a lot of work, even just to switch the interface from mouse+kb to multi-touch.

 

Also why would anyone want to play with multi-touch over mouse+kb? It's a bit like playing FPS on a gamepad, it's rather stupid considering they have to add auto-aim and slow enemies down, perhaps if you can't afford a gaming PC over a console for half the price then it makes more sense. What kind of rebalancing will the game need to support this new interface?

[Micru]

The thing is Android tablets and iPad's don't have the power to run PC games,

 

Back then they didn't have the power to run IE games and now they can (using GemRB). It could be that it happens the same with PE.

 

it's not going to be easy to port, there's going to be quite a lot of work, even just to switch the interface from mouse+kb to multi-touch.

 

More reasons to think about it from the beginning!

 

Also why would anyone want to play with multi-touch over mouse+kb? It's a bit like playing FPS on a gamepad, it's rather stupid considering they have to add auto-aim and slow enemies down, perhaps if you can't afford a gaming PC over a console for half the price then it makes more sense. What kind of rebalancing will the game need to support this new interface?

 

There are many people already playing old IE games on their tablets. Right now using GemRB, in the future with the option of using BGEE too. That you don't like it or find it inappropriate doesn't mean that everyone shares your opinion. Maybe you would enjoy it when you try it

[Ieo]

Any plans to implement these technologies? In BGEE multi-touch support will be available, I don't know about multiple screens, though it would be nice to have the option to configure what to display on each screen. Screen 1 and 2 game port view, screen 3 inventory, screen 4 journal :D

 

First off, what BG:EE does in its development has nothing to do with Project Eternity.

 

Secondly, Obsidian has already been very clear that HID is important for their vision of PE as a proper old-school SP CRPG. And that means mouse, keyboard.

[Micru]

First off, what BG:EE does in its development has nothing to do with Project Eternity.

 

True, but they are improving a game that PE is using as a reference, and if they are doing it, that's because there is a demand.

 

Secondly, Obsidian has already been very clear that HID is important for their vision of PE as a proper old-school SP CRPG. And that means mouse, keyboard.

 

I don't see why should be incompatible to have the option to choose. The argument of not using a multi-touch technology because it is not true "old-school" is comparable to arguing against the use of higher definitions or 3D character models because they were not there in the past.

[Tale]

More reasons to think about it from the beginning!

Only if the goal is to end up there.

 

If the goal is for PC, then compromising and considering things other than the PC takes away from that effort.

[Hornet85]

First off, what BG:EE does in its development has nothing to do with Project Eternity.

 

True, but they are improving a game that PE is using as a reference, and if they are doing it, that's because there is a demand.

 

Secondly, Obsidian has already been very clear that HID is important for their vision of PE as a proper old-school SP CRPG. And that means mouse, keyboard.

 

I don't see why should be incompatible to have the option to choose. The argument of not using a multi-touch technology because it is not true "old-school" is comparable to arguing against the use of higher definitions or 3D character models because they were not there in the past.

 

It takes time and money to implement additional feature, resources that could go into other areas of the game that will benefit everyone and not just a small group of people who are marching the tablet support thing in a juggernaut fashion.

[D3xter]

The game isn't meant for consoles, or tablets, or mobile phones or any of that stuff and they have been abundantly clear about that, I'd rather they work on the game and other features that would benefit the PC side more instead of trying to drag in an unsupported platform.

 

The entire UI and interactive paradigm would be changed by something like that, for instance there is no "mouse-over" e.g. tooltips, texts, hints on tablets because you can only "touch" a certain spot but there's no cursor dragging.

[Teahive]

Windows 8 is meant for tablets,

Windows 8 is meant for all kinds of PC, and touch is not limited to Metro apps. By the time PE is released there will be millions of touch-enabled Windows 8 PCs, That most of them will probably use the tablet form factor is neither here nor there, they should all be powerful enough to run PE.

 

What kind of rebalancing will the game need to support this new interface?

PE does not rely on particularly fast or precise input, you can always pause. Thus no rebalancing is required.

 

IE games can be played almost exclusively with a mouse, a keyboard is not necessary except to name your characters and savegames. PE will likely be the same. Pointing can be emulated well with touch, there are just a few things that would have to be handled differently because touch can't do right-clicks or hover.

 

From the top of my head, these are actions that would have to be handled differently, with examples. The rest is just finger tap equals left click.

 

Name character, savegame - bring up the on-screen touch keyboard built into Windows

Scroll map, log, or journal - swipe with one finger

Zoom the map (assuming it's supported in PE) - two-finger pinch

Select party members - add a select modifier button on screen. While it is pressed, tapping a party member adds it to the selection (= Ctrl-click), tap-and-drag creates a selection rectangle.

Show tooltips - add a second on-screen button. Pushing it shows all tooltips (useful to identify NPCs and loot)

Right-click (to bring up item descriptions) - tap-and-hold

Move item - tap-and-drag (same as with mouse)

Move partial item stack - tap-and-drag, then swipe second finger up or down to adjust the number of items moved

Edited October 18, 2012 by Teahive

[Luridis]

I didn't pay for multitouch and tablet support, neither did the other kickstarter backers. The project's stated goals are excellent CRPG in style with the old IE games. If you funded expecting a tablet version then you're the one who failed to read the project's stated goals. Goals that specifically excluded non-personal computing platforms. If you didn't fund the kickstarter then what are you doing in here trying to ride your desires on a development team you didn't even bother to support? Don't like it? Tough! The world doesn't revolve around what you want.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Windows 8 is meant for tablets,

Windows 8 is meant for all kinds of PC, and touch is not limited to Metro apps. By the time PE is released there will be millions of touch-enabled Windows 8 PCs...

 

It's quite clear that development has been focused on tablets and that touch isn't an improvement on desktops over mouse and keyboard. You're only kidding yourself.

 

That most of them will probably use the tablet form factor is neither here nor there, they should all be powerful enough to run PE.

 

We don't know this, we do not know how powerful they will be, or how much power PE will need.

 

What kind of rebalancing will the game need to support this new interface?

PE does not rely on particularly fast or precise input, you can always pause. Thus no rebalancing is required.

 

IE games can be played almost exclusively with a mouse, a keyboard is not necessary except to name your characters and savegames. PE will likely be the same. Pointing can be emulated well with touch, there are just a few things that would have to be handled differently because touch can't do right-clicks or hover.

 

 

From the top of my head, these are actions that would have to be handled differently, with examples. The rest is just finger tap equals left click.

 

Name character, savegame - bring up the on-screen touch keyboard built into Windows

Scroll map, log, or journal - swipe with one finger

Zoom the map (assuming it's supported in PE) - two-finger pinch

Select party members - add a select modifier button on screen. While it is pressed, tapping a party member adds it to the selection (= Ctrl-click), tap-and-drag creates a selection rectangle.

Show tooltips - add a second on-screen button. Pushing it shows all tooltips (useful to identify NPCs and loot)

Right-click (to bring up item descriptions) - tap-and-hold

Move item - tap-and-drag (same as with mouse)

Move partial item stack - tap-and-drag, then swipe second finger up or down to adjust the number of items moved

 

 

That changes the options for play style quite a bit, and either the developers and players are happy with that, or they're not and things will have to be changed. It seems to me that such a play style would excessively require pausing. It really depends on the game whether pointing can be emulated well, you can of course be way more precise with a mouse or a stylus.

[Setlec]

rebalancing for porting a game just to support multi-touch ? none sense, it's a matter of input and controls it's harder to implement such things cause you have to create those controls to suit the input specially when you are accustomed to use a keyboard and mouse.

[HoneyBaked]

I would assume that at least the non-RT version Windows 8 will have some emulator applications released that map multi-touch controls to keyboard and mouse. Something similar to Xpadder, which emulates mouse and keyboard controls on gamepads.

[Frisk]

Multi-screen...uhm, maybe. Multi-touch - just what does that add to the gaming experience? I cannot think of anything.

[Jasede]

Touch-screens are disgusting.

[Aoyagi]

People should seriously stop asking for ports, additional controls and things alike. Port to XBOX! I want controllers! I want to touch it! I want to drive it with a wheel! Or move with a joystick! I want voice control! It wasn't mentioned during the KS campaign so there is near to zero chance that any of the suggestion will be heard. It's becoming ridiculous.

Touch-screens are disgusting.

Only the capacitive ones

[Luridis]

Gestures!!!!

Edited October 26, 2012 by Luridis

[nikolokolus]

If this game doesn't use kinect I'll be very upset...

 

[jivex5k]

I don't care about touch implementation one way or another.

 

What I do care about is multi-screen. It would be awesome to have you inventory/journal/notes screen always open in a second monitor.

Edited October 26, 2012 by jivex5k

[Teahive]

That changes the options for play style quite a bit, and either the developers and players are happy with that, or they're not and things will have to be changed. It seems to me that such a play style would excessively require pausing. It really depends on the game whether pointing can be emulated well, you can of course be way more precise with a mouse or a stylus.

The game allows you to pause as much as you want. The designers already have to take that into account, but as PE is not an action game nor an RTS clicking faster or more precisely should make no difference. You could play PE with a crappy trackpad and still give your party as many commands per game time as anyone with a high precision gaming mouse.

 

I'm really not sure how you think this "changes the options for play style".

[AwesomeOcelot]

That changes the options for play style quite a bit, and either the developers and players are happy with that, or they're not and things will have to be changed. It seems to me that such a play style would excessively require pausing. It really depends on the game whether pointing can be emulated well, you can of course be way more precise with a mouse or a stylus.

The game allows you to pause as much as you want. The designers already have to take that into account, but as PE is not an action game nor an RTS clicking faster or more precisely should make no difference. You could play PE with a crappy trackpad and still give your party as many commands per game time as anyone with a high precision gaming mouse.

 

I'm really not sure how you think this "changes the options for play style".

 

It matters to the pace and flow of the game, the designers don't have to take pausing all the time into account, it obviously makes a difference even to things like how long the game takes to play.

[Archmage Silver]

I honestly don't think they'd ever implement support for touch based devices without announcing it up front before the Kickstarter campaign ended. That would just be a massive PR fiasco waiting to happen, not to mention backers wanting their money back.

[Starglider]

As with the idea of a console port, make the main game for PC first, and if it's successful the ports can be considered seperately as low-risk self-funding propositions (even farmed out to another portfolio).