C2B Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Reading up on last night has been quite, well mindboggeling. A lot of actions and thread behavior has been not about supporting the developers and their decisions (which I thought was our goal), but about making demands. I know that is a bit melodramatic and it has not yet degenerated. But, I'm getting scared nonetheless. And the way it's going it might just get out of hand. What is actually our goal now? Do you expect Obsidian to owe the order something. Because honestly, that way ends bad, very, very bad. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moirnelithe Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Let's not blow this out of proportion. It was one person, no need for all the attention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansia Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 They owe us one thing only; to listen. I don't think they should or will implement every thing we come up with or whine about, but they shouldn't ignore us either. Just to read what we have to say and take it with a grain (or spoonful) of salt is more than enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Let's not blow this out of proportion. It was one person, no need for all the attention. I'm not just talking about dlux. Other posts as well (including the thread about putting something in the game, which honestly the devs should decide themselves), that have certain indications. And as I said I'm just getting scared and think the issue needs some attention before it becomes a real one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolokolus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I guess I'm glad I got to sleep through whatever drama apparently happened. As for me, no, Obsidian doesn't owe me anything except a fun game I can play in a year and a half. I don't presume to speak for other people, but I never chipped in an extra 8 bucks assuming that it was leverage over the devs. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolokolus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Tempest in a teapot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Reading up on last night has been quite, well mindboggeling. A lot of actions and thread behavior has been not about supporting the developers and their decisions (which I thought was our goal), but about making demands. I know that is a bit melodramatic and it has not yet degenerated. But, I'm getting scared nonetheless. And the way it's going it might just get out of hand. What is actually our goal now? Do you expect Obsidian to owe the order something. Because honestly, that way ends bad, very, very bad. Let's not blow this out of proportion. It was one person, no need for all the attention. Nonetheless I share his concern, he raises valid points. "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) They owe us one thing only; to listen. I don't think they should or will implement every thing we come up with or whine about, but they shouldn't ignore us either. Just to read what we have to say and take it with a grain (or spoonful) of salt is more than enough. Inviduals voicing their opinion is fine. Not exactly in a demanding matter though, though this is sometimes unavoidable in a internet forum. However using the group/order isn't. Edited October 16, 2012 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's really that bad ? I thought that group was just some goofy, harmless fanboys. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eryss Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The only thing they owe anyone is to try thier best to make the best game they can make. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's really that bad ? I thought that group was just some goofy, harmless fanboys. It's not. But it shows signs as little as they may be. And this can get very fast, very big (as in any case with big groups) very bad. This is why we need to discuss this now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaesun Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 They don't owe us anything. This was merely a way for us to show support for this project. That is all it has ever been. 15 Some of my Youtube Classic Roland MT-32 Video Game Music videos | My Music | My Photography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansia Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Indeed, I certainly agree the tone has been... awful. In my personal experience if you can't present your ideas in a calm and rational matter without resorting to cheap shots and emotionalism it's because you haven't thought out your point and there isn't much of one there to begin with. Then again, this is the internet, and I bet more than one of the people doing this are doing it on purpose to make people upset. You just have to pat them on the head and wait for them to join a real discussion. Don't stoop to their level, just calmly reply and take control of the tone. They'll seem even more like crying children that way and will simply ostracize themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) The only thing they owe anyone is to try thier best to make the best game they can make. My thoughts exactly. While I missed whatever went down last night, people feeling entitled and making demands of developers in nothing new with Kickstarter projects. People think that just because they pledged to a project they have the right to steer it in whatever direction they choose. I joined the Obsidian Order of Eternity to show support, nothing more. I may suggest some things, but I don't demand anything. I'm confident that Obsidian are intelligent and seasoned enough to consider constructive suggestions and ignore unreasonable demands. In the end, they know better than any of us what they're capable of implementing with the funds they have been given. Edited October 16, 2012 by Keyrock RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Trethon Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Let's not blow this out of proportion. It was one person, no need for all the attention. I'm not just talking about dlux. Other posts as well (including the thread about putting something in the game, which honestly the devs should decide themselves), that have certain indications. And as I said I'm just getting scared and think the issue needs some attention before it becomes a real one. Any popular game will have a few of these....I think it's to be expected a few will missbehave. Nothing I would worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOptimist Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm kinda with the OP. When you step back and examine it, we kicked in another $8+ as a lark for a custom forum title and a show of support for Obsidian. They said they'd mention the order in the game, and I'm deeply grateful for that. But it's time to rein in expectations a little. We can have as much fun with the Order as we want on the forums, but I had thought the whole point was that we thought the project was worthwhile enough to throw in extra cash, not start asking the devs for special consideration. And I also agree that it's better to talk about this now than see the problem get worse. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krios Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 What demands? What we got here is the fans exchanging ideas, making their opinions and viewpoints known to the developers for their consideration. By putting in money, it does not give us any right beyond an invitation to join in on the feedback and a copy of the game and merchandise when they are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's really that bad ? I thought that group was just some goofy, harmless fanboys. It's not. But it shows signs as little as they may be. And this can get very fast, very big (as in any case with big groups) very bad. This is why we need to discuss this now. NO. We just need to wait a few weeks for the forums to go back to normal. Most of the noobs wanting things will dissappear back from where they came from. Some will leave angry, some crying, others will just find a new fad. 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasede Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'd recommend hugging a stuffed animal if you're scared. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luridis Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I support the developer's vision. I'm happy to make suggestions when they're looking for ideas, and I've even made a few along the way here. But, in the end, it's up to Obsidian to decide how they want to do this. If I have a vastly different vision and want to see that, then it's my job to make that happen, not theirs. Additionally, I think dlux's leaving may have had to do more with unkind words than whatever the developers are planning. Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar #define TRUE (!FALSE) I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rink Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I think the problem will solve itself in some hours, because then kickstarter will be over. Everyone paid for the not yet existing "game" how the developers described it and people here have no way of using their pledge money to reinforce their ideas. Of course it is a bit a new thing with people seing themselves as shareholders instead of customers, although they/we are nothing else, we buy a product and the possibilty to say what we think and want and NOT the right to have our ideas in it. But I am sure the devs can handle it and I don't see any difference if the demanding person is a Obsidian Order member or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syn2083 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The only expectation should be that we receive a video game at some point, provided we paid for one. Beyond that there is little we should expect. I was sad to see some of the cheap shots and name calling, but I think given some time the issue will drop as the attention to it passes. In that vein, I hope that those with cooler heads can keep them, and all should be fine. Forums get rowdy fast, and calm just as quickly. Its a cycle that unfortunately will (in my opinion) probably always exist. We all just need to remember, its just a game, its a group of developers we love, and good or bad, this will be a fun adventure. -Crash the silence for the sake of memory- Computer Problems or Questions? Visit the FAQ And Skeeter's Junkyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 They don't owe us anything. This was merely a way for us to show support for this project. That is all it has ever been. Well, they owe me the rewards for my pledge. Oh well, figured something like this would come. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Machine Miyagi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Anyone here been around long enough to remember the Unwashed Villagers, back in the days of Fallout 2? I actually used to post on the Black Isle message board at that time. Basically the equivalent of OO, except without the donation. They received their own random encounter in the game itself, as I recall. The most OO is owed is something similar, though preferably without the smashed fourth wall. Edited October 16, 2012 by Death Machine Miyagi Álrêrst lébe ich mir werde, sît mîn sündic ouge siht daz here lant und ouch die erde, der man sô vil êren giht. ez ist geschehen, des ich ie bat: ích bin komen an die stat, dâ got menischlîchen trat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Out of curiosity, what exactly happened last night? Can someone point me in the right direction or fill me in? RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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