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Anyone else happy there is no 'Raise Dead'-like spell?


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I'd just point out that the update said "no known magic that can bring them back". Given the importance companions typically have I can certainly see there being some- probably/ hopefully non trivial- discoverable means of bringing them back, particularly since another part of the update deals with necromancy.

 

I like how non chalant he was about how so view necromancy. "Please don't do it or I will have to murder you "

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Mixed feelings, I suppose.

 

Am glad that I won't have to justify to myself just how it was that a Khalid/Yoshimo -type character COULDN'T be raised from the dead or resurrected, in those few instances in a game where such things were encountered.

 

Am not-so-glad with what has been the replacement method of deal with "death" in modern games, which is to say, the party either lives or dies as a unit (with fallen members popping back up after a battle is done -- which, incidentally, happens FAR more frequently than the occasional instance of a fallen party member being inexplicably un-raiseable). In short, death mechanics in moderns games have been so random, arbitrary, or nonsensical at times that I don't even feel anything when the plot line DOES take that character away, because I know they were just a plot device to begin with.

 

Reloading never bothered me, since the act of reloading was never an in-context construct to begin with (aside from ToB, where it was just an easter egg/ bit of humour... "Bondari reloads..." :))

 

As I see it there are drawbacks to Raising the Dead, and drawbacks to what has taken over since they decided that allowing characters to die was a problem. All in all, I find that having to ignore a few societal inconsistencies and justify a few Unraisables was a small price to pay for a game that I found to be mostly consistent in its treatment of death, otherwise, rather than having everything left up to the whim of the writers of the story and heavy-handed mechanics that bore no resemblance at all to what they were supposed to be portraying.

 

Am hoping that PE is the game that convinces me that non-raisable characters really is the way it should be done, however.

 

If I were expecting P:E to go the KOTOR route where everyone just passes out when they've been hacked repeatedly with a lightsaber, I would actually find the lack of raise dead to be a negative thing.

 

I think the Obsidian people are smarter than that.

Edited by Death Machine Miyagi
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I am very happy that there 'seems' at this point to be some real consequences. I hope that there will be possibilities for perma death. I think it adds a lot of flavor to the game when this can happen.

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I think it sounds like an amazing system, very happy about it.

 

It'll probably mean a whole lot of reloading your quick saves when you fail miserably in an encounter, but doing so and changing your strategic approach to a fight is part of the fun - I love doing fights over and over in BG, it's a learning experience, since using the DnD rule set & strategic party based combat makes it so much more complex than any other game :)

 

(and for people who hate chain-reloading, there's Iron mode)

 

I do remember chain resurrecting in many fights the first few times I played BG2, because I sucked. Badly. I also had never encountered anything like DnD rules before, and the complexion it brought excited me to no end. I really hope PE will bring this complexity back, even if the entire world & ruleset will be developed within the span of a year. I have high hopes for it.

 

Some encounters were pretty much balanced after the fact that you can resurrect mid-combat, though.

Edited by mstark
"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"
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Well, it kinda seems to force many players to reload the last save, especially who do not like to lose even a single character of the party during/after the battle.

In BG2, I didn't mind losing 1-2, maybe 3 members of my party after a long and tough battle because i could use resurrection rod to bring them back to life instead of playing that battle again. But this does not mean that i always did like this, sometimes i couldn't stand to lose a single character (lets say Edwin) and reload the game again.

Its much of a choice or depend on the style of the player so I'd prefer resurrect spells to be in this game.

Anyway, its best to see how this no-resurrect thing will work in game and PE world. It's not that hard to get used to it.

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I am happy to see that raise dead is not in the game as a standard mechanic. I have never liked raise dead from a purely flavor perspective, outside of extremely rare circumstances such as intervention by gods in a story line. I think having every mid level priest being able to bring people back to life cheapens it and makes death meaningless in the storyline and really detracts from the world.

 

I am also happy to see perma-death as an option to enable, makes it a much more hardcore experience. That coupled with the mode they mentioned where you can't reload after a party wipe... *swoons*

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From a gameplay perspective I never used Rise Dead or similar spells in IE games. When one of my party members died I simply loaded my last save. So I couldn't care less about the presence or lack of a Resurrection spell.

 

From a lore perspective I agree with the OP. I think resurrection and other means of reviving people have always brought up a lot of problems from that point of view.

 

Edited by Rahelron
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It's going to make expert mode really interesting if they come up with a good implementation of mechanics.

 

But in general I like the Darklands approach to injury mixed with truly permanent death.

 

It could certainly play alot different than we are used to with most RPGs

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It does tend to put a premium on making sure characters stay healed and rested, and gives the game more of a Fire Emblem type feel, where you consider how much danger you want to put a given character in very carefully. Speaking for myself, it will probably increase my number of reloads in my initial playthroughs drastically, as I am not a fan of losing companions.

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I've never liked the raise dead mechanic, and I almost never used it. It's nice that the game won't be balanced around the use of it.

JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

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Great, as long as stamina/HP is balanced properly.

 

It also makes it more tricky to reload when a party member dies, because he/she will have got to that particular fight low on health, and thus you retain that danger.

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I agree with the op, I am happy that death will be something a bit more eternal than in the usual fantasy game, although the maimed thing sounds a bit like DAO.

Anyhow, I think I'll play with the 0 health = death option enabled, so I'm ok with that.

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I'll probably stick with maimed mode. Its still a consquence of defeat, your characters going to be useless until you rest.

 

A spell like a santurary type spell that makes an area safe for resting will be valueable.

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I do like that this skirts the issue of having game physics that don't match the story. Mechanically, I expect there will be a work-around (the whole "maimed" thing) that will let you get, er, dead-ish companions back on their feet again. I know it doesn't add anything to tough fights to have to reload again because somebody bit it in the last 3 seconds before you finally got the boss down. I'm a perfectionist type, nobody dies on my watch. Even if the fight was friggin' annoying.

 

But aside from that mechanical aspect (which I expect will not turn out to be A Thing), I'm fine with this.

Grand Rhetorist of the Obsidian Order

If you appeal to "realism" about a video game feature, you are wrong. Go back and try again.

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Assuming the Adventurer's Hall works how I imagine it would, it also provides a further measure of insurance against the perils of perma-death - the other being the claim that the game will be at least somewhat balanced with less-than-maximum party sizes.

 

Not sure if it's been answered, but would be interesting to see if the player character is expendable - does the game continue with the rest of the party as if nothing happened? Do you get teleported to the Hall and made to create a new character? Outright game over screen?

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I don't mind the spell, because if there is no raise dead spell, this also means you have to reload after every single death.

There is no real philosophical explanation for reload and its impact on society either.

:)

 

And in actuality this is exactly how I played through BG, I always releaded when a party member died, it just felt somewhat shallow to revive them on the spot when you look at the context of some of the conversations seen in BG, such as the ones OP mentioned.

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I'm mostly neutral on it, but more happy than anything else. I don't mind spells like Raise Dead or Resurrection when they have consequences, but often in games they have no consequences beyond the price and they at times end up making some events seem odd. I also will often play through games with a personal rule not to use them at all anyhow.

 

I intend to always play with the death option enabled, so my opinion of the maimed thing is simply that it's nice that it's there for people who don't want their party members to die.

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I probably should have known better for dropping into a thread about death, but darn it spoilers!

 

Anyway, if I recall correctly there was a hardcore mode alongside the standard difficulties, unless I remember that incorrectly. Either way that would seem to solve the issue for those looking for a game and those looking for realism. Although one could say if the spell exists it's more realistic to bring those who pass back and if the possibility due to story or some such, there's a death greater than death in the realm the game resides in.

 

Honestly? I doubt I'd ever enable deaths until my second or third playthrough, what good is realism if I could miss a good chunk of story involving a companion. I definatly wouldn't mind perma deaths in later playthroughs, but as I'm getting to know everything, having them unavailable until you can safetly recover seems like an equivalent danger if you're in the middle of something, and with a weight system, one less pack mule can hurt

Edited by Swells
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