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ddillon

The Adventurer's Hall should not be a "money sink"!

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From the recent GameBanshee interview with Josh Sawyer:

 

Buck: How important will currency be in the game, and what steps are you taking to ensure that there are enough money sinks to keep it important from start to finish?

 

Josh: I think currency is really interesting and it says a lot about the state of the world and the cultures in it. My interest is not necessarily shared by everyone, so I don't know how important individual currencies will be. What we use as money sinks will depend in part on how our stretch goals turn out. We already have a player house and that can be a good money sink. If the stronghold is funded at $3 million, that can be a huge money sink. Additionally, some crafting options and the Adventurer's Hall can serve as money sinks.

 

The Adventurer's Hall should not be a "money sink"!!!

 

First and foremost, we shouldn't be penalized for wanting to create a custom party. If the developers are looking for a way to limit the number of companions created in the early game, they should limit the number by PC level or story progress (or something else).

 

Second, adventurers want to adventure, right? Not sit around on their butts in the Hall. Why should they demand vast sums of money to join an adventuring party? And if the story is such that the Hall is more-or-less mercenary recruitment (a concept that I don't like), then it should be a small payment with the idea being that the mercenary would share in the spoils (perhaps simply requiring a payment of a certain percentage of the party's gold if and only if removed from the party).

 

Really, we just want to be able to make custom parties without strings attached, plz!

 

Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I consider this *very* important. (I will say that it is getting close to the end of my day, so perhaps I'm more irritable than I should be... but still... grrr...).

Edited by ddillon
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Yes, players should be penalized for wanting to create a custom party!


1.13 killed off Ja2.

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No, they shall not be punished a single way for doing so.

Hopefully, it is just a misunderstanding, or perhaps it is a matter of Adventurer Hall providing rare crafting options or help with strange recipes for rare enchanted items?


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Basically what he means is you shouldn't be able to run to the Adventurer's Hall and hire 5 companions so the game is easier.

 

The NPC companions will probably not automatically join your party like in Baldur's Gate and you'll probably have to do a quest or something for them with them as a follower before you get them.

Edited by Sensuki
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From the recent GameBanshee interview with Josh Sawyer:

 

Buck: How important will currency be in the game, and what steps are you taking to ensure that there are enough money sinks to keep it important from start to finish?

 

Josh: I think currency is really interesting and it says a lot about the state of the world and the cultures in it. My interest is not necessarily shared by everyone, so I don't know how important individual currencies will be. What we use as money sinks will depend in part on how our stretch goals turn out. We already have a player house and that can be a good money sink. If the stronghold is funded at $3 million, that can be a huge money sink. Additionally, some crafting options and the Adventurer's Hall can serve as money sinks.

 

The Adventurer's Hall should not be a "money sink"!!!

 

First and foremost, we shouldn't be penalized for wanting to create a custom party. If the developers are looking for a way to limit the number of companions created in the early game, they should limit the number by PC level or story progress (or something else).

 

Second, adventurers want to adventure, right? Not sit around on their butts in the Hall. Why should they demand vast sums of money to join an adventuring party? And if the story is such that the Hall is more-or-less mercenary recruitment (a concept that I don't like), then it should be a small payment with the idea being that the mercenary would share in the spoils (perhaps simply requiring a payment of a certain percentage of the party's gold if and only if removed from the party).

 

Really, we just want to be able to make custom parties without strings attached, plz!

 

Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I consider this *very* important. (I will admit that it is getting close to the end of my day, so perhaps I'm more irritable than I should be... but still... grrr...).

 

 

At $2.6M, we will add an Adventurer's Hall to the world. In the Free Palatinate of Dyrwood, adventurers and mercenaries from across the world are often employed as personal bodyguards, elite security, or salvage (plunder) teams that venture into the forgotten corners of Eír Glanfath. A lot of the folks who hang out as such places are robbers and miscreants, but reliable agents can be found and employed with a bit of patience.

 

What does this mean for you? It means that if you don't like a companion, or if you don't like any of our companions, you won't be cut off from having characters of their classes. Over time, you can build your own custom parties to play through the game. If you want a party of monks or all casters, this gives you the ability to do it within the game while still maintaining the pacing of the standard PC + companions play style.

 

And now that that's out of the way, let's talk about...

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Obsidian ‏@Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers

 

"Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing :p)."

 

Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.)

Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%.

Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.

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Ddillon, this is worrying me a bit too. Here are my two cents on this:

It's called Adventurer's Hall for a reason, these guys are adventurers, so I expect a motley crew that makes the peeps over at Duncan's Sunken Flagon appear as similar as members of a team of synchronized swimmers. No forced "fee", please. It kills the RPG-bit of it. Far from all adventurers that I can create have gold and valuables on their mind or are pressed for money. Sure, a few of them can be mercenaries, but that's all

Perhaps in order to get the Adventurer's Hall to working order you need to do some quest or so (but I doubt that's a very good idea). I want this to work as smoothly for the player as possible.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Hiring an experienced adventurer SHOULD be a moneysink. With experienced I mean quite stronger than your party. I don't think the *money sink* will actually be that big if you're just going to normally be hiring someone there.

 

@Indira: There's not many people that would work for free, if they had not similiar or to you connected goals. Also, probably none of them would register themselves at an establishment (Adventure's Hall) that's exactly for this purpose. You do if either:

 

A: You're looking for someone to join in compensation for money or at least something.

 

B: You're looking for an escort. In which case you would provide the money.

Edited by C2B
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I don't see a problem with having to hire people at the adventuring hall. In a realistic world the majority of people -especially in a place like an adventure hall -wouldn't just go 'sure I'll come with you for free'! A few would, and should in a game like this, but I think you should pay for the top tier dudes.

 

I would hope however there's a way to haggle, or even an alternative way to pay, be it some quick quest or certain items. Either way, flexibility = money makes sense to me.

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C2B: If it was a character that is "quite stronger than your party", I would never go to that Adventurer's Hall. That sounds weird. Perhaps I've imagined things, but to me Adventurer's Hall means that I will be able to make my own party, something I really, really love doing. My Pcs should all be of roughly the same level, and most importantly, have the RP-traits that I tell them to have.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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GD: That is still very weird. I want to make my own party. Choose race, class, gender and background and all the RP-goodies I love. I can "pretend" that I happen to come across them at some Sunken Flagon or Adventurer's Hall, but they are all my little sweet creations, and certainly not hirelings and henchmen, unless I've said that that is what they are.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Kopi: If it's anything that seems to come up in this thread, I agree with you.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Ddillon, this is worrying me a bit too. Here are my two cents on this:

It's called Adventurer's Hall for a reason, these guys are adventurers, so I expect a motley crew that makes the peeps over at Duncan's Sunken Flagon appear as similar as members of a team of synchronized swimmers. No forced "fee", please. It kills the RPG-bit of it. Far from all adventurers that I can create have gold and valuables on their mind or are pressed for money. Sure, a few of them can be mercenaries, but that's all

Perhaps in order to get the Adventurer's Hall to working order you need to do some quest or so (but I doubt that's a very good idea). I want this to work as smoothly for the player as possible.

 

Josh specifically stated the reason for this being that the start of the game they want you to be 'solo' for a while. The whole point in putting in pricing is to prevent people from running over there and having a party of 6 at the start of the game. I see no issue with actually hiring mercenaries, at least that makes sense. A huge adventurer's hall where you can craft companions for free, makes absolutely no sense lore-game wise.

  • Like 3

Obsidian ‏@Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers

 

"Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing :p)."

 

Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.)

Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%.

Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.

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If the choice is between a money sink and having companions in the Adventurer's Hall somehow scaled to your level, I think i'd much rather have a money sink.

 

Also, I disagree that having a location called the Adventurer's Hall sounds too artificial. In a world of fantasy and adventure, I think it's perfectly plausible.

Edited by Piccolo

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Josh specifically stated the reason for this being that the start of the game they want you to be 'solo' for a while. The whole point in putting in pricing is to prevent people from running over there and having a party of 6 at the start of the game. I see no issue with actually hiring mercenaries, at least that makes sense. A huge adventurer's hall where you can craft companions for free, makes absolutely no sense lore-game wise.

 

The first point is entirely understandable, and like I said it could be an adventure all on its own terms opening Adventurer's Hall up. That makes sense lore-wise, but from there on in, it would all cater to my RP needs when I build my own party, no?

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Piccolo: It breaks the RP immersion for me, for my party. It is almost like a dealbreaker. And money sinks in this game will be player house and stronghold, no problems there.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Josh specifically stated the reason for this being that the start of the game they want you to be 'solo' for a while. The whole point in putting in pricing is to prevent people from running over there and having a party of 6 at the start of the game. I see no issue with actually hiring mercenaries, at least that makes sense. A huge adventurer's hall where you can craft companions for free, makes absolutely no sense lore-game wise.

 

The first point is entirely understandable, and like I said it could be an adventure all on its own terms opening Adventurer's Hall up. That makes sense lore-wise, but from there on in, it whould all cater to my RP needs when I build my own party, no?

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd have no problem with it being like that, I just want it to fit into the world and make sense.


Obsidian ‏@Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers

 

"Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing :p)."

 

Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.)

Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%.

Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end.

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You should make inns the place to hire (create) companions. Adventurer's Hall feels kinda artificial.

It supposed to be artificial since it's there just to please those people that absolutely have to create more than one character for no reason at all.

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1.13 killed off Ja2.

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GD: That is still very weird. I want to make my own party. Choose race, class, gender and background and all the RP-goodies I love. I can "pretend" that I happen to come across them at some Sunken Flagon or Adventurer's Hall, but they are all my little sweet creations, and certainly not hirelings and henchmen, unless I've said that that is what they are.

 

They don't need to be? How did you get that impression?

 

It may also be just a fee from the adventure's hall itself.

 

Be a little creative here.

Edited by C2B

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Piccolo: It breaks the RP immersion for me, for my party. It is almost like a dealbreaker. And money sinks in this game will be player house and stronghold, no problems there.

Well level scaling breaks my immersion even more. Paying more money for a more experienced companion is far more logical than only ever being able to recruit companions that are roughly equal to your character's level.

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C2B: I hope you meant "They don't need to be!" without the question mark, coz that would be one step in the right direction. I would hate if the game forced me into saying they are my "employees". They could be somebody I've befriended over a few ales, they could be somebody I'm manipulating in order to further my own evil agenda, etc, etc...

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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You should make inns the place to hire (create) companions. Adventurer's Hall feels kinda artificial.

Hopefully, "Adventurer's Hall" is just the name of a tavern/inn that is famous for attracting people of the adventurous persuasion :). That way, such a tavern would also attract people who offer advanced services that adventurers might well be interested in, like crafting.

 

If it was just a great hall where people stand around waiting to get hired, that'd indeed feel very artificial. A purpose designed inn/tavern, just happening to be named "Adventurer's Hall", would be more realistic :).

 

On topic: I'm happy for it to be a money sink. I'm sure they would scale it so that the cost is never too great. Say, during a normal play through, maybe you would find companion #1 after 1 hour, companion #2 after 2 hours, companion #3 after 3 hours, etc.

 

The cost of "hiring" an adventurer (read: creating a custom companion) in the adventurer's hall would probably be weighted against this, so after 1 hour of playing you can easily afford to hire one adventurer. After having played for 2 hours you can easily afford to hire a second adventurer, and so on. Money sinks are never designed to outright ruin you, or be prohibitively expensive, they're generally designed to scale well with your estimated wealth at any point in the game.

 

Maybe you'd be able to pay extra to hire an adventurer closer to your current level, rather than having to level them up from scratch (although I personally would HATE to see this, unless it's ridiculously expensive. It's hand holding).

Edited by mstark
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"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"

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GD: That is still very weird. I want to make my own party. Choose race, class, gender and background and all the RP-goodies I love. I can "pretend" that I happen to come across them at some Sunken Flagon or Adventurer's Hall, but they are all my little sweet creations, and certainly not hirelings and henchmen, unless I've said that that is what they are.

 

They did admittedly say there would be full party custom. Though I wasn't sure how connected to the adventure hall that was. I would say as compromise -assuming both player-made and PC-made adventurers are in the Hall- that the player made characters be the eager beavers who go for free (or cheaply, if you designed the character to be a money grubber).

 

That said, the PC-made adventurers would have to be pretty interesting to catch my attention in that situation... so the idea isn't perfect.

 

EDIT: In fact, have it that player-made characters go up in price after a point. Say your first full party is free, or cheap. And then the price increases with each person you create and swap out. This would make it harder for people to end up having the perfect party for every occasion, thus breaking the game, but it means they still have the ability to choose how they start the game. Heck they could still break the game if they put enough effort into it.

Edited by General_Disarray

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Hmm, I may have misunderstood something, but here we go again, you say that a new pc that I've made will be more experienced than my first/main PC. Am I fooling myself, but ain't this function just a way for me to build my own characters? And wouldn't it mean that I can build a few characters that are all of the same level as my main PC when i do?

And let's say I leave behind some PC I've created and make a new one. Then I regret it, and take back the PC I left behind, will it not then level up to the new level of my main PC at that point? Like in NWN2?

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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