Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Update #23: Less than 50 Hours to Go! Documentary News, Playing Cards, and New Wallpaper!

project eternity update 23 documentary feargus urquhart playing cards reddit ustream wallpaper

  • Please log in to reply
92 replies to this topic

#61
pseudonymous

pseudonymous

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 94 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.


from: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f079.htm

The term 'fraud' is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. [Fraud may also include an omission or intentional failure to state material facts, knowledge of which would be necessary to make other statements not misleading.]


You have to prove that they intend to break their word.

As an example, the author of a certain open-source non-linear video editor is, apparently, using his two successful kickstarter campaigns to travel to software conventions around the world instead of getting the NLE into shape to make basic edits. However, there is code in a public repository, so he can claim that he isn't defrauding his contributers, even though the kickstarter campaigns are his only source of income and these conventions and travel to them are not free.

That being said, Kickstarter is not a store.

#62
eldrewden

eldrewden

    (0) Nub

  • Members
  • 2 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
With each update, I get more excited about the game.

Make all the back of the cards different. It will make playing poker easier. :biggrin:

#63
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 17067 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
Pseudo, nothing you posted or link is contrary to what I posted.

#64
Shaewaros

Shaewaros

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I sure want those playing cards. Obsidian has really planned the pledge tiers well, since I'm really considering pledging over 100$ even though originally I was perfectly fine with the simple boxed version tier.

#65
s_d

s_d

    Necronaut of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 5 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Just an FYI to curious parties, I've asked a question on the KS comment thread, and had it answered by the team (Feargus actually):

SD asks...

@Feargus, Darren: I apologize if this has already been answered, but where it was asked in the update #23 comment thread, it was not answered; will the production documentary be released episodically (possibly with little side quests, a la Double Fine Adventure), or monolithically nearing release? If this has not been fully determined, please consider my vote on the side of an in-progress, episodic affair. It rocks, over at DFA, and I can't stress how involved it makes us feel, regardless of how one-sided it actually is.


Feargus delivers...

@SD We want to deliver some episodes during development, I don't know if we will do one every month at this point. However, we are going to be updating you all frequently outside of the documentary with web blogs, chats and posts of info.
@SD That was from Feargus


Really happy with that answer, actually. What if they have a really slow month and not much to document? Perhaps art updates and live chats are more appropriate for that month. What if there is a month so packed with awesome that they really want to do an episode and a "side quest" short video? Or more than one? They can do it. I'm on board for that level of flexibility. Also, the team can include behind-the-scene goodies on the final documentary which were not made available until the end, namely fun content that also happens to have spoilers sprinkled throughout (especially the funny bits!).

Anywho... you may return to your regularly scheduled Kickstarter legal discussion ;)

#66
gsalerno

gsalerno

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 12 posts
  • Location:Pavia
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...


You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!
is this legit?
how much would you pay for one package?

I'm sure there are a LOT of backers that are not in US and would like to use something like this if it's legal and solves the customs issue.


If Obsidian could look into this... it would make possible for a LOT of backers to raise their pledges a bit more.


Sure, basically you do shopping over USA via ebay or in this case for PE, you will have "free shipping" to your USA address, then you have 3 months for ask them to repack everything in a single box and ship to your final address (for me Italy).

Since it will be a shipping from your name in usa to your name in europe it will be a private - to private shipping and you are able to say "it's a 20 dollar value".

I've already used it some times and got no custom taxes.

Only one remarks: viaddress service is free but right now they ship only with FEDEX and prices are not so cheap, if you collect many goods, before shipping to your home always ask them for a repack, it will allow you to save money for the final shipping.

Hope this will help you.

#67
gsalerno

gsalerno

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 12 posts
  • Location:Pavia
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...


You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!
is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.



I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

Regards

#68
Waywocket

Waywocket

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 139 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.


Yes and no. There are a lot of KS project where a donation really is just a donation.

If there's a reward specified for a particular tier though, that has to be honoured; since all the game projects so far have promised copies for donations above some minimal amount, that effectively means they need to complete the project. For projects where the rewards are something other than the finished product (there are a lot of these in other categories), their only requirement is to fulfil those rewards, not necessarily the project itself.

(I realise that's not incompatible with what you wrote; I don't want to contradict, just clarify.)

#69
Humanoid

Humanoid

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3838 posts

You know i've never had a problem importing/buying items from overseas before. Does Australia even have import taxes on things like this???


As mentioned, the threshold is $1000AUD, and anything above that is a triple-whammy: you are charged the 10% GST, import duty (varies based on what the goods are classified as) and a processing fee of $40-60 depending on import method and declaration method.

I've never 'legitimately' had to go through the process, but there was one time where I imported a bike worth about $800, which was mistakenly tagged as over the threshold because it came in two separate boxes: one for the frame and one for the wheels. Each box had the same copy of the invoice so customs added up the values and tried to charge me based on a calculated value of $1600 (GST+processing fee, as complete bikes attract an import duty of 0%). Got it sorted by forwarding the original invoice to their mailbox and didn't have to pay anything.

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...


You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!
is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.



I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

Regards


Completely depends on the policy of the country it's being sent to. Over here in Australia, customs can and will inspect packages and value imports at "reasonable" market rate if it's apparent that the value has been underdeclared. If lucky, that's all they'll do, but worse can happen. It'd probably flag future imports to the same address as being suspicious too.

#70
norolim

norolim

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 229 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Documentary -> me like

#71
mstark

mstark

    Oblivious of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 553 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, Sweden
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...


You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!
is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.



I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

Regards

Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. And customs would hold your package until the fee is paid.

Customs is generally operated by the police.

#72
mstark

mstark

    Oblivious of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 553 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, Sweden
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...


You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!
is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.



I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

Regards

Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. Customs would hold your package until the fee is paid, or destroy it if it's not.

#73
Waywocket

Waywocket

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 139 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. Customs would hold your package until the fee is paid, or destroy it if it's not.


My experience with this sort of thing (in the UK at least) is that you get the package, and then they send you an extra bill two weeks later. And that's how I learned about customs charges.

#74
Lasharus

Lasharus

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 12 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer

I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?


Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends? :p

#75
Pyradox

Pyradox

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?


Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends? :p

To my knowledge you just up your pledge by the respective amount, wait for the suvey to be sent, let them know which addons you were after.

#76
Lasharus

Lasharus

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 12 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer

I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?


Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends? :p

To my knowledge you just up your pledge by the respective amount, wait for the suvey to be sent, let them know which addons you were after.


That also works through PayPal?

Eh, works for me. I'll look into upping the amount in a bit then.

EDIT: Can't believe I didn't say this. Thanks for the response. :)

EDIT EDIT: Pledg'd. Now to wait for the expansion. And for the site to allow donation for the pack of cards. This project is sapping my money, blast it! :p

Edited by Lasharus, 15 October 2012 - 02:45 AM.


#77
Hornet85

Hornet85

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 200 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I hope the playing cards are made by USPC and please don't make plastic cards, they get sticky very quickly :p

#78
hideo kuze

hideo kuze

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 276 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
Ok.
But since KS works on the base of donations and Feargus (from that quote someone posted here) said he will use the goods production costs (instead of the donation value), I guess there is no need for the viaddress type of thing.

#79
rjshae

rjshae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5041 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.


from: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f079.htm

The term 'fraud' is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. [Fraud may also include an omission or intentional failure to state material facts, knowledge of which would be necessary to make other statements not misleading.]


You have to prove that they intend to break their word.

As an example, the author of a certain open-source non-linear video editor is, apparently, using his two successful kickstarter campaigns to travel to software conventions around the world instead of getting the NLE into shape to make basic edits. However, there is code in a public repository, so he can claim that he isn't defrauding his contributers, even though the kickstarter campaigns are his only source of income and these conventions and travel to them are not free.


Perhaps one should keep in mind that Obsidian does have some wiggle room on their Kickstarter pledges. I'm sure Obsidian will satisfy their stretch goals, but the budget may end up limiting what they can do while completing them. For example, the Stronghold may be 85% of what they would like to accomplish rather than 100%. But the end product can still be enjoyable and you may scarcely notice the difference. (I'm not saying that they will do that; I'm just assuming good faith at this point.)

As for conventions, some companies view those as educational opportunities that help developers keep up their skills set. Most serious conventions provide more benefit than they cost, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to them.

#80
Kaldurenik

Kaldurenik

    Demilich of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 212 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Make a 3.7 or 4.0 stretch goal to make more hype!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: project eternity, update 23, documentary, feargus urquhart, playing cards, reddit, ustream, wallpaper

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users