Wirdjos Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I recently read this interview with Feargus Urquhart and one answer in particular on the subject of continuing fundraising caught my attention. Feargus: We haven’t entirely figured that out yet, however we will most likely leave our PayPal donation site up for a while longer. inXile just revamped their own site to continue taking pledges and donations. We do want to make sure that our Kickstarter and early PayPal backers feel like they have been treated right, so we will look at how long we really should keep a site like that active. This is one question I'm more concerned with than most and I had never considered the reactions from people that pledged a lot of money all at once for something that they thought was going away. So I would like direct answers from the community at large, specifically people in the higher tiers. How would you feel if Obsidian decided to keep the fundraising with all of the rewards open after the kickstarter closes? If you would be okay with everything staying open, how long should it be open? If you would prefer some rewards stick around and others don't mention that. I'm not exactly impartial on the subject as I ran out of money on a tier much lower than I would like. If I'm allowed to continue working towards reward tiers, I will likely double my pledge by the end of the year. So feel free to ask me questions about my pledge habits/feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loranc Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It works both ways. There are some people who want to donate and get that 5,000-10,000 tier item but can't afford it with the 1 month time frame they had. There was really no time to save up or generate money and 1 month sure as hell isn't enough time for people with families, etc. It is a slap in the face to people who donated right away, making sure to secure their rewards before they went away, but at the same time all that really matters is that this project gets as much funding as it possibly can. If keeping the donations open for a while after the kick starter has ended, i'm all for that. Myself being in the 250 tier bracket. Obsidian @Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers "Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing )." Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.) Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%. Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajaat the Warbringer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Wouldn't bother me a bit, it would just mean that the game I already paid for becomes bigger and better than I paid for. "It is an extraordinary act of courage to come to know a stranger's pain. To even consider such a thing demands a profound dispensation, a willingness to wear someone else's chains, to taste their suffering, to see with one's own eyes the hue cast on all things -- the terrible stain that is despair." -Tulas Shorn "Toll the Hounds" by Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I could work my way up their tiers by paying $20 a month I would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loranc Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I could work my way up their tiers by paying $20 a month I would. I agree with this 100%. Obsidian @Obsidian Current PayPal status: $140,000. 2,200 backers "Hmm so last Paypal information was 140,000 putting us at 4,126,929. We did well over and beyond 4 million, and still have an old backer number from Paypal. 76,186 backers. It's very possible that we have over 75,000 backers if I had new Paypal information. Which means we may have 15 Mega dungeon levels, and we already are going to have an amazing game + cats (I swear I will go stir crazy if Adam doesn't own up to the cats thing )." Switching to Paypal means that more of your money will go towards Project Eternity. (The more you know.) Paypal charges .30 cents per transaction and 2.2% for anything over 100,000 per month for U.S currency. Other currency is different, ranging from anywhere between 2.2-4.9%. Kick Starter is a fixed 5% charge at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I IPM'd The Guildmaster about it but no reply yet *grumbles* But I can imagine a whole new funding model for niche / indie games where we effectively pay pre-release subs as part of a long-term funding strategy. I can't give Obz $1000 right now. But I can over a protracted period of time and for the right product / rewards I happily would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) It would be great if Obsidian could leave their Paypal on their site open for quite some time. Kickstarter is failry new to a lot of people and I'd imagine there would be people who don't know about Project Eternity. I missed out on the Wasteland 2 kickstarter and wanted the Collectors Edition box after I found out about PE. I was able to buy it a week ago when Inxile updated their site. Edited October 13, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinistas Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm all for it. If I hadn't just gotten my student loans this month I wouldn't have been able to pledge a cent. Dreaded Silence - Boston Melodlic/Doom Metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccolo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I really hope the reward tiers are all still available via Paypal after the Kickstarter has ended. i want to go for one of the higher tiers... but that isn't going to be financially viable for me within the next 3 days, which is before I start a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 This is one question I'm more concerned with than most and I had never considered the reactions from people that pledged a lot of money all at once for something that they thought was going away. So I would like direct answers from the community at large, specifically people in the higher tiers. How would you feel if Obsidian decided to keep the fundraising with all of the rewards open after the kickstarter closes? If you would be okay with everything staying open, how long should it be open? If you would prefer some rewards stick around and others don't mention that. It's still a business, so they will have to work with budgets and timelines. If they don't know what their final revenue will be, that makes it harder to plan out what they can accomplish. Hence, I'm guessing that, at some point, additional funding might have to go toward add-ons. Stuff like extra side quests, additional effects, more illustrations, and added random loot items. Not bad things for certain, but not really quantifyable stretch goals. 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirdjos Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I could work my way up their tiers by paying $20 a month I would. This is my plan should they allow it to stay all open. It would be great if Obsidian could leave their Paypal on their site open for quite some time. Kickstarter is failry new to a lot of people and I'd imagine there would be people who don't know about Project Eternity. I missed out on the Wasteland 2 kickstarter and wanted the Collectors Edition box after I found out about PE. I was able to buy it a week ago when Inxile updated their site. I've heard somewhat confusing things about how Inxile is running their after kickstarter campaign. Could you go more indepth into how it was before and how it is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clammo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm all in favour of it. I'd like to up my current $500 to get to the $1000 pledge tier, but can't really justify it to myself all in one month (and my other half is meaningfully opening and closing the nutcracker every time I venture near the Kickstarter site.....). Just nabbed this quote from Feargus taken from a Q&A round-up over on the Bioware forums: Question: Will it be possible for backer to up their pledge and buy add-ons after kickstarter finishes, like it's with Wasteland2? Feargus: We are working on that system and will have something up soon. We wanted to finish the translated sites and are getting there (took a long time). We have Español a d Polski up: http://eternity.obsidian.net/pl/ http://eternity.obsidian.net/es/ So it's looking more likely it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabain Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 @Wirjos: Basically what InXile did is put some of the tier rewards on a "store" as a way of donating to development. For example the digital download tier on Kickstarter was $15, while on the store it is now $20. There is a $1000 tier on their store to add an npc, weapon or location to the game of your design, on the kickstarter the $1000 tier had a lot more items in it because it came with all the previous tiers loot added in. This tier on their store comes with a bunch of stuff too but not everything that would have been on the KS tier. Basically you can still get some tiers but either at a higher price or with reduced loot. What Feargus was saying was that it is important to Obsidian to make sure the backers who are backing now and making the KS a success don't feel like they got a kick in the nuts because a store opens after the KS where people can buy what they want when they want off the back of the money that the original pledgers gave that made the KS a success in the first place. I'm fine with them opening a store if it is in the same vein as InXiles, raise the price a few dollars on the lower tiers and remove some of the other rewards from the higher tiers so that the KS backers get something unique but the late pledgers can still donate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenup Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I could work my way up their tiers by paying $20 a month I would. Yeah, that's my plan as well more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frisk Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 By all means keep it open for longer. I personally went for a fairly high tier, but if the PayPal fundraising stays open longer it is in no way going to reduce the value of what I get - quite the contarary - I am going to get a bigger, better game as a result. This applies in particular if it means the difference between getting a second big city or not (the 3.5M one). A few of my old tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I've heard somewhat confusing things about how Inxile is running their after kickstarter campaign. Could you go more indepth into how it was before and how it is now? Inxile only had the $20 digital download on their site. I refused to buy it as I wanted a box copy. I even mentioned to Feargus on the Kickstarter comments that it was disappointing that Inxile didn't have the extra tiers or box copies. In the last week, Inxile have put the box copies up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccolo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) I would be okay with them raising the price of certain tiers, or removing certain rewards / bumping them up to a higher tier once the Kickstarter has ended. I think it's only fair that the people pledging early through the Kickstarter get a slightly better deal. As long as there's still some compelling reward tiers available for people like myself who want to pledge a large amount, but can't afford to do so at the moment. Edited October 13, 2012 by Piccolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What Feargus was saying was that it is important to Obsidian to make sure the backers who are backing now and making the KS a success don't feel like they got a kick in the nuts because a store opens after the KS where people can buy what they want when they want off the back of the money that the original pledgers gave that made the KS a success in the first place. And Ferg is completely right to see it that way. I agree entirely with the principle of early backers winning unique rewards. I'd just like to get some other stuff like maybe signed copies etc later on to reflect my contribution, not eclipse the generous folks who dug deep right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirdjos Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 It's still a business, so they will have to work with budgets and timelines. If they don't know what their final revenue will be, that makes it harder to plan out what they can accomplish. Hence, I'm guessing that, at some point, additional funding might have to go toward add-ons. Stuff like extra side quests, additional effects, more illustrations, and added random loot items. Not bad things for certain, but not really quantifyable stretch goals. I'm a lot less interested in letting the stretch goals stay open. Like you said, I think that would cause development issues. @Wirjos: Basically what InXile did is put some of the tier rewards on a "store" as a way of donating to development. For example the digital download tier on Kickstarter was $15, while on the store it is now $20. There is a $1000 tier on their store to add an npc, weapon or location to the game of your design, on the kickstarter the $1000 tier had a lot more items in it because it came with all the previous tiers loot added in. This tier on their store comes with a bunch of stuff too but not everything that would have been on the KS tier. Basically you can still get some tiers but either at a higher price or with reduced loot. What Feargus was saying was that it is important to Obsidian to make sure the backers who are backing now and making the KS a success don't feel like they got a kick in the nuts because a store opens after the KS where people can buy what they want when they want off the back of the money that the original pledgers gave that made the KS a success in the first place. I'm fine with them opening a store if it is in the same vein as InXiles, raise the price a few dollars on the lower tiers and remove some of the other rewards from the higher tiers so that the KS backers get something unique but the late pledgers can still donate. That all sounds good. I just don't want to miss out on a lot of the physical goodies I imagine won't be offered later. I would be in favor of a system that saw things like helping to make game content and appearing in the credits drop with the kickstarter but other things like the collector's book and the cloth map stay open for another year or so. That way the early pledgers will feel appreciated and the late comers can still donate and get some great collector's items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolokolus Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The thing with limited run collector's items (physical goods), is that Obsidian has to contract with somebody who manufactures the items, depending on what it is (books, printed maps, etc.) they usually have to be ordered in batches, I'm not sure it would be easy for Obsidian to sit on a lot of inventory. I don't know, maybe I'm under estimating the profitability of these goods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 ^ No, you're right I think they've learnt from the mistakes of others who've had their fingers burnt with physical stock. I'd farm it out to a third party, take a smaller cut on merch, but not have the burden of holding stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Basically you can still get some tiers but either at a higher price or with reduced loot. What Feargus was saying was that it is important to Obsidian to make sure the backers who are backing now and making the KS a success don't feel like they got a kick in the nuts because a store opens after the KS where people can buy what they want when they want off the back of the money that the original pledgers gave that made the KS a success in the first place. I'm fine with them opening a store if it is in the same vein as InXiles, raise the price a few dollars on the lower tiers and remove some of the other rewards from the higher tiers so that the KS backers get something unique but the late pledgers can still donate. I'm fine with this too. The key is to maintain a certain level of exclusivity for the "fairness" bit, and the "store" period would have to end at some point as well. @nikolokolus I think a lot of people overestimate the profitability of goods related to Project Eternity. Niche market. Subtract production, storage, distribution, etc. Best leave that calculus up to Obsidian... The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book. Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most? PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE. "But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger) "Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirdjos Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 The thing with limited run collector's items (physical goods), is that Obsidian has to contract with somebody who manufactures the items, depending on what it is (books, printed maps, etc.) they usually have to be ordered in batches, I'm not sure it would be easy for Obsidian to sit on a lot of inventory. I don't know, maybe I'm under estimating the profitability of these goods? I can see this issue as well. My preferred setup has all of the lower kickstarter reward tiers (up to $500) staying open through paypal (with the exception of the credits mention) and only closing when Obsidian goes to order all of these things. I don't know how well that would work, but it solves the bulk goods issue in my not-knowing-things mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 More money to obsidz = great, but later backers should not be able to get the pet. Nobody gets to touch my Blofeld-persian! 1 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueakyCat Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What Feargus was saying was that it is important to Obsidian to make sure the backers who are backing now and making the KS a success don't feel like they got a kick in the nuts because a store opens after the KS where people can buy what they want when they want off the back of the money that the original pledgers gave that made the KS a success in the first place. I'm fine with them opening a store if it is in the same vein as InXiles, raise the price a few dollars on the lower tiers and remove some of the other rewards from the higher tiers so that the KS backers get something unique but the late pledgers can still donate. It would depend on what items were made available from the higher tiers. Signed Items should remain exclusive for 'fairness' and because the devs are already looking at signing hundreds of boxes and books as it stands now - - to make that thousands were be unreasonable. I really hope that make an official statement on this before the Kickstarter ends so everyone can properly evaluate where they stand with their pledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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