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Online Multiplayer mode

online network lan multiplayer

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#21
macros

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There is a big difference between MMOs and RPG multiplayer.
I had much fun playing Baldurs Gate with a friend. We played mostly in one room, everybody could control the NPCs he liked (and decide in dialogues with them).
Conversation choices and combat tactics where discussed and all together it was an awesome experience.

It works well, you just need better teamwork.

I like the idea of an additional Kickstarter for multiplayer, but I guess its to late now. Implementing it later on is nearly impossible, the amount of work is more than double that of adding it right away.

Edited by macros, 15 October 2012 - 04:16 AM.


#22
VixRaine

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I am, personally, in the camp of not wanting anything that is going to take away from the SinglePlayer Experience of the AGES™

#23
Aleron

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I am, personally, in the camp of not wanting anything that is going to take away from the SinglePlayer Experience of the AGES™


Seconded.

That said, I'd love a Neverwinter Nights online sort of option, but considering the time it would take to implement such a thing I believe it to be entirely not feasible.

#24
Freshock

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I'm glad they mainly focus on singleplayer for now, but I wouldn't mind a multiplayer expansion in the future.
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#25
rodkinnison

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I am personally dying for the right kind of multiplayer. What do I mean by the "right kind"?

I mean an open framework like NWN or NWN2 that allows for user-created shared worlds.

It absolutely does NOT mean being able to play the primary storyline multiplayer. That, to me, is very different from an open world approach and getting it to work well with a primary storyline is a huge creative effort that is not too useful.

But you have the engine, the rule set, the game mechanics all there. You have a community of persistent world builders and players who have been keeping NWN and NWN2 alive with scotch tape and bailing wire because they love to play with their friends.

Putting the hooks in for that DURING game development is credible. Doing it all after, not so much.

There is NO need for an "MMO" style of game. But the Persistent World niche has been left totally unfilled since NWN2 and I know that I backed the project just hoping Obsidian would do again what they pioneered so well. Put the hooks together, the community, if it is a hit game, can pick up that ball and run with it.

#26
Luridis

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It would like to comment on "You'd be surprised..." as I have good programming experience and did design (very little) multiplayer games and wrote the networking for some robots playing a game of "mensch ärgere dich nicht" on a special build game field. So I think I can somehow estimate the amount of work which will be needed to do this. Of course in a company like obisdian I have to add management costs and other factors into it, but the numbers still stay resonable.
Anyway, I have to get sleep, so I wont bother for now as the decision has been made.


Ah, let me translate this for everyone, "I once changed the oil in my car so I think I'm fully qualified to estimate the time an expense involved in removing the transmission and completely rebuilding it in a mechanic's garage."

The arrogance in that is astounding to me...

Multiplayer? Sure, after the game is released if they have the resources or they perhaps kickstart a MUD expansion for it. And, as long as it's done right. No central servers, LAN parties encouraged, no microtransactions etc.

I really detest multiplayer and especially MMO's myself. They're designed to string you along as long as possible, not advance proportional on the time you put in and hook you into coming back to play every day even when you have other things to do. Mechanics like dungeon finders are pushing people apart, encouraging them to bail the minute someone makes a mistake, and ensuring you don't have to build any sort of reputation as someone who is fun to play a game with. It's perfectly okay for you to act like a total jerk because the system will roll you into another party. God-forbid you feel left out because you've pissed off any and everyone who might have played with you cause you want to have a tantrum every 5 minutes. Heavens no, we can't have social consequences because that would mean people unsubscribe.

Edit: Okay hehe, I guess that last part was more a rant on how people abuse features than the features themselves.

Edited by Luridis, 18 October 2012 - 11:12 AM.

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#27
Karkarov

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I hope they stay away from it period. It always baffled me that the Infinity Engine games had it in the first place. It was a single player RPG from the ground up and the multiplayer really didn't add anything to the game and never really worked well anyway. If you want the fun of playing with a buddy there are tons of games that are actually designed for that out there, every game doesn't need multiplayer. I know I am having a blast playing co-op Borderlands 2 with a friend right now, but I would never even consider inviting him to play Baldur's Gate 2 with me in co-op.

#28
Tiliqua

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Well Karkarov, I played all the BG and IWD collection as co-op and I can assure you it provided some of the best gaming experiences of my life. The fact that you don't get it is neither here nor there.

I'm happy for you to play sp as much as you like, however I find it a bit rich to have you pontificating about how multiplayer in the IE games didn't add to the game and didn't work well when for many people it was the exact opposite. I wonder how you can justify such bizarre statements.
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#29
Ieo

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I'm happy for you to play sp as much as you like, however I find it a bit rich to have you pontificating about how multiplayer in the IE games didn't add to the game and didn't work well when for many people it was the exact opposite. I wonder how you can justify such bizarre statements.


MP didn't add anything to those games: They added the opportunity to socialize to those games. The thing a lot of proponents fail to realize is that adding content value is absolutely not the same as sharing an experience with a friend--yeah, you can go to the movie theatre by yourself, or you will probably enjoy it more if you went with a friend. Guess what? That has nothing to do with the movie itself.

But MP does affect content design in a negative way for primarily SP games. This is why co-op players should stick with games designed from the outset to be ground-up MP.

I added an interview reference to your post, by the way. The question started with console controls, but the discussion goes to the co-operative experience.

VGRevolution: This question is a bit strange – I know console development isn’t being considered, but what are your feelings on why games like this don’t get made for an Xbox or PS3? I understand controls are an issue but I feel like that is sort of a sad excuse, for me personally the thought of banding together with 5 friends and going on an adventure that spans several hours, is something that is long overdue.

Sawyer: Controls really are a big part of it, which is also why RTSs (other than Pikmin and a few other unorthodox ones) are also notably in short supply on consoles. The co-operative experience has always been a bit of a mystery to me for this sort of game. Many people request it, but it invariably winds up being underutilized or ignored by the majority of players once the game is released.


I play MMOs for the social-game fix, otherwise.
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#30
Tiliqua

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It's a while since I played the IE games in co-op mode but my memories are that it was all about the party rather than about the individual players. In that sense it's it's very similar to the sp game. The content was unchanged but was shared. What was different were the dynamics of play. Playing with another person made it (for me and my friend) a much more rewarding experience, it required team work, with us sharing our trials and tribulations. This is something I never get from a sp game, for obvious reasons. I'm not doubting that it involved extra work for the devs, however it's not as though you have sp content and co-op content - you just have the one game.

Your quote with Josh mentions consoles which are not part of this debate and then goes on to say how he thinks multiplayer is underutilised and essentially a mystery to him as to why people want it. I'm not sure whether this is a personal opinion or one backed up by monitoring and evaluation (M&E). If it's backed up by M&E data then I have to defer to his conclusions and accept that I am part of a minority that isn't worthwhile catering to. However if there is no science behind that statement I think co-op should be considered as an addition to the game, as a lot of people claim to love it.

I find this debate a little weird. The co-op haters seemed determined to prove that co-op is a lesser experience for a game such as PE. Personally I'm happy for people to play sp until their fingers bleed, I'm just wishing there was a co-op option.

I can accept that there are not the resources to create this option, I cannot accept that games such as PE must only be played as a SP game.

Edit for spelling and grammar

Edited by Tiliqua, 19 October 2012 - 06:33 PM.

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#31
nikolokolus

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You know what sounds a lot better in theory than in it is in practice? A spork. "hey look, it's a spoon and a fork rolled into one!" You know what? You get an inferior fork and crappy spoon that way. I just want Obsidian to build the best fork they can and leave the spork to somebody else.

Edited by nikolokolus, 19 October 2012 - 09:23 PM.

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#32
ValborgSvensson

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You know what sounds a lot better in theory than in it is in practice? A spork. "hey look, it's a spoon and a fork rolled into one!" You know what? You get an inferior fork and crappy spoon that way. I just want Obsidian to build the best fork they can and leave the spork to somebody else.

 

An interesting argument, but I've used some awesome sporks, and moreover they cater to a group of people who find them immensely useful, such as (as I will refer to them) outdoorsmen.

 

But if we can ground this back in the realm of video games, and specifically the IE games which supported multiplayer, I contend that the theory and practice are both wonderful. Several people have already mentioned the fond memories they have of playing these games with a group of friends, so I won't beat that end of the dead horse, but I'd like to hear some specific reasons that people seem to think adding multiplayer would ruin a game like this, preferably with examples.

 

The argument that I recall as I'm typing this is about how dialogue would be a problem in a multiplayer mode for this game, which I find to be nonsense; do you have the same problem with dialogue when running a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, or during a night of Rune or Pathfinder? There is really little difference between the two, except that the video game has to, by necessity, be slightly more restrictive in choice and speaking order. But if you can successfully play a pen and paper RPG with your friends, then there is nothing that I see stopping you from enjoying a multiplayer mode of this game; in fact, it's hard to play D&D when your friends are on the other side of the world, but having the ability to use TCP/IP connections means that I can play BGII with my brother while he's deployed in Afghanistan. And if the multiplayer development hurt some aspect of the game that I was completely ignorant of because I was too engrossed in the art, the voice acting, the game mechanics, the story, and the wonderful memories of conquering bosses with my brother through what must be now at least 50 playthroughs of varying difficulties and arbitrary rules (like the Bhaalspawn must be a dwarven kensai specializing in spears - go on and try it, it's pretty fun!), then I'm pretty sure I'm glad they took a hit on some ancillary part of the single player experience to bring me everything else.

 

Note : I tried to not beat the dead horse and failed, twice, so I'm leaving in my little rant. Please excuse it on the grounds that we're all just passionate about this game, and want it to bring back a golden age of computer RPGs.  :grin:



#33
Birnensalat

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I have played all of the old Infinity-Engine games in multiplayer and it was great. I used to be with two of my friends in one room with chips and beer playing for the whole weekend. In my opinion it was the best possible way to expierience the game. Although only one Person could engange in conversations with NPC's we would all read it and discuss our answer. The MP in Baldurs Gate and other Infinity-Games really wasn't complex or difficult. It was like playing Singleplayer only that your friends could take over the other characters. That's it. There was no real optimization for it as all of the characters were saved with the savegame of the host and tied to that game unless exported (Does that even work? Never tried it). Since the Singleplayer Game was already Party-based the Devs didn't need to change the game a bit. You could even have one character to start with and let your friends control the other ones you would find on the way.

 

Such a feature is all what i would ask for. No need for complex, structured and optimized MP on my end where all of the content has to be coop friendly and limited.

 

Hearing that PoE won't have Multiplayer is quite a downer for me actually. When PoE only scratches the awesomeness of Fallout 2 or Planescape Torment it would make up for anything and even more though.



#34
TiQ79

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Unfortunately you guys make me wanna cry. It seems to me I'm punish for you don't get any friends to play with you.

 

 

I can tell you how a multiplayer mode should be played, it's called coop.

Of course there will allways only be one "first" hero, but why shouldn't it be possible to have a buddy following you just like one of the NPCs. If cutscenes and conversations where made a bit better than in Neverwinter Nights 1/2, there is really no disadvantage.

 

If "the game system was inspired by classic and contemporary tabletop fantasy role-playing games". then they should, no they must give some heavy thoughts in multiplayer. We never rolled our dices alone. And now the time where PC players sit alone in their chamber is gone as well.


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#35
DangerAce

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I just want it to be known that I would eagerly back a Kickstart project from Obsidian that aimed to produce a multiplayer RPG simulator.



#36
Luckz

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This thread is why I removed my contribution to this game's Kickstarter efforts before it ended.

Every time I look at it, a good bit of my soul dies.



#37
Texoru

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It maybe nice to add MP in but as the interview it seems like it will be only a SP game for this kind of genre. 



#38
Alegrado

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How is it possible that people of obsidian have not considered creating persistent worlds? Why was not considered? Since NWN being waiting for something to replace it, I thought this would be the game, we wandered through a lot ..



#39
sesobebo

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How is it possible that people of obsidian have not considered creating persistent worlds? Why was not considered? Since NWN being waiting for something to replace it, I thought this would be the game, we wandered through a lot ..


because it's not NWN that they're trying to re-create with PE...

#40
Alegrado

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I know, I do not want a NWN, I only meant persistent worlds. So I asked: Why was not considered?. 
Either way, I do not doubt the final product quality. Just hoping to include that option.






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