Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part II).

[Karranthain]

Right, and to quote the guy who replied to me and underlined my point about not copying historic real world designs.

 

sez who

 

Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows how to and can find all the reference material they want to look at pictures of medieval/renaissance arms and armor. If discussing medieval arms and armor, or sharing pics of them, is what you want this thread to be about you need to start a new one. This thread was clearly about asking Obsidian to make arm's and armor in game more realistic when I read it. Considering you are the OP I would think you would know that. Not that Obsidian ever had any plans to do something else, their own concept art shows they don't.

 

The topic first started as a plea for more believable and down to earth designs. It's only natural that people would post what they'd like to see in the game, hence various image examples. Not all of them were of medieval/renaissance arms and armor. Case in point :

 

http://forums.obsidi...40#entry1247786

 

http://forums.obsidi...i/#entry1239125

 

http://forums.obsidi...60#entry1250353

 

http://forums.obsidi...60#entry1250004

 

http://forums.obsidi...60#entry1250890

 

This isn't Lionheart, it is based in fantasy not reality or a fantasy take on reality. Using any real world military unit designs would be, in short, a really bad idea.

 

That's your opinion. Not that the idea was complete realism anyway - just using varied influences, some of them historical. And yes, I'd love to play a sequel to Darklands, but that's a topic for another discussion.

 

Your own reply to me even says you would like to see a real world Germanic Mercenary in full historic attire show up in game. So maybe you should stop quoting other people and be an adult by admitting that is exactly what you are advocating in this thread.

 

How about I quote myself then?

 

http://forums.obsidi...20#entry1240350

 

Indeed, but since it's a fantasy game I personally don't mind a small concession here or there;

 

http://forums.obsidi...a/#entry1188299

 

Indeed, I'm not advocating absolute realism - for an instance, Lord of the Rings movies do this right most of the time I feel. But it still retained that fantasy feel.

 

And :

 

(from the original post).

 

In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

 

It really does seem that you haven't actually read this topic.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Karranthain

[Dronios]

And what do you think about this ?

[jezz555]

I would really love it if obsidian chose a more Robert E. Howard/Classic Tolkein style for the arms and armor as opposed to the current fixation on final fantasy and anime inspired gear we see in games like WoW and basically every other rpg out there nowadays. There used to be a time when swords actually looked like swords and not giant multicolored slabs of stone with glowing writing all over them and spikes jutting out everywhere.

 

Regarding the topic of female armors. I think plate mail could be largely unisex, however leather armor and thief gear should be more revealing imo, because I think its perfectly reasonable to imagine a thief attempting to play up her own sexuality in order to seduce noblemen/steal stuff ect.

[Monte Carlo]

Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though.

 

 

Sez who?

 

Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot.

 

I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life?

 

If we put you on a room on your own, would you still start a fight?

 

Sheesh, find another thread to haunt. Morale Vampire.

[Karranthain]

Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though.

 

 

Sez who?

 

Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot.

 

I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life?

 

If we put you on a room on your own, would you still start a fight?

 

Sheesh, find another thread to haunt. Morale Vampire.

 

Or better yet, let him haunt the Romance thread

Edited October 24, 2012 by Karranthain

[Karkarov]

Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though.

 

 

Sez who?

 

Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot.

 

I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life?

 

If we put you on a room on your own, would you still start a fight?

 

Sheesh, find another thread to haunt. Morale Vampire.

 

Or better yet, let him haunt the Romance thread

Or better yet, you guys can stop acting like butt hurt 5 year olds cause someone doesn't agree with you.

[Monte Carlo]

Great fantasy-themed Middle-Eastern characters.

 

[Karranthain]

Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though.

 

 

Sez who?

 

Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot.

 

I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life?

 

If we put you on a room on your own, would you still start a fight?

 

Sheesh, find another thread to haunt. Morale Vampire.

 

Or better yet, let him haunt the Romance thread

Or better yet, you guys can stop acting like butt hurt 5 year olds cause someone doesn't agree with you.

 

I rest my case.

[Tsuga C]

And what do you think about this ?

 

I like the level of detail, but the style is redolent of "kewl d00d" syndrome, a disease of artists trying to appeal to the 8-12 year-old male demographic. A lich, a demon prince, or an arch devil might be able to pull off this look successfully, but it's too stylized for me to accept it as something that our PC might wear.

[Jarmo]

And what do you think about this ?

 

 

 

 

Not something from a local shop obviously, but that'd be great example of something you'd loot from the necromancer who'd been wearing it to gain influence and intimidation over the band or orcs he'd been bossing over. Or something. Wonder if the green showing through is his skin? Then it'd be pretty weak leather armor with plated gloves and boots. But if it's a part of the armor it could be a pretty effective suit.

 

Lot's of valid reasons for a bit of extravaganza, though most would be about making an impression.

 

I'd like to see stuff like that in the game. Alongside plainer examples.

Because if that'd be the casual design, then it'd just be a gothic circus where nothing is special looking.

[Karranthain]

And what do you think about this ?

 

 

 

Very detailed - I just dislike the fact that there's skulls everywhere

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

Kingdom of Heaven anyone?

[Nidrolok]

Sorry, I can't see the armours through all that orange and teal.

[Dream]

If they go the realistic route then all armor would look exactly the same. I want the fancy crap to look bad ass with flames and skulls and spikes and what have you. Who cares if it's practical; it's called fantasy for a reason.

[AgentOrange]

I agree. Don't necessarily want flames and skulls and spikes mind you...but if I wanted completely realistic and authentic armors I'd go read a ****ing history book. Or play a Total War game.

Edited October 25, 2012 by AgentOrange

[Katrar]

I'd like my psionicist-type PC to be protected by a mental force field. She'd go buck naked, and her melee weapon would be a day old turkey leg (with a bite taken out). Should I post pics for dev inspiration?

Edited October 25, 2012 by Katrar

[Karranthain]

I agree. Don't necessarily want flames and skulls and spikes mind you...but if I wanted completely realistic and authentic armors I'd go read a ****ing history book. Or play a Total War game.

 

I don't think anyone in this topic called for "completely realistic and authentic armors". But every once in a while someone has to post that strawman

[Shadenuat]

This question is from Micah Beaumont. "What are some of the specific things (such as Movies, Artists, Books, Games) that greatly influence you?"

 

 

 

I take a lot of inspiration from history. History books contain some of the most interesting characters and conflicts I've ever seen. I like the histories of "great men" (and women, like Joan of Arc and Lucrezia Borgia), but I'm really fascinated by the lives of ordinary, less well-known people put in difficult or unusual circumstances. In particular, figures like Martin Guerre, Domenico Scandella (aka Menocchio), Matteo Ricci, and Hans Böhm are really inspiring to me. St. Waidwen in Project Eternity is based on legends of Hans Böhm, aka the Drummer of Niklashausen.

 

Along the same lines, I like history and historical fiction, both in films and books. I really enjoy the historically-focused works of Umberto Eco, especially The Name of the Rose and Baudolino. Lawrence of Arabia and Roland Joffé's The Mission are both favorite films of mine and were inspirations for the Fallout: New Vegas DLC Honest Hearts.

 

Haters can suck on our huge metal codpieces on our gothic plates.

[Karranthain]

Josh is a massive fan of Darklands, so that doesn't surprise me

[Jarmo]

Reminds me I really liked the Cuman designs in TW: Stainless Steel mod

 

 

There was this even neater example somewhere, with real simplified face plate, basically just eye and mouth slits which looked just evil.

Looks like the 7.0 version is coming up nicely, I'll have to reserve a month for when I get my paws on that.

 

Anyway, I really like the design, what with plated arms and legs, hauberk, and enough clothing to make it anything but plain.

It'd be neat if Eternity had facemask separated from helm, though many helms would combine both.

[Karranthain]

Reminds me I really liked the Cuman designs in TW: Stainless Steel mod

 

 

There was this even neater example somewhere, with real simplified face plate, basically just eye and mouth slits which looked just evil.

Looks like the 7.0 version is coming up nicely, I'll have to reserve a month for when I get my paws on that.

 

Anyway, I really like the design, what with plated arms and legs, hauberk, and enough clothing to make it anything but plain.

It'd be neat if Eternity had facemask separated from helm, though many helms would combine both.

 

Something like in this post (or this one) is pretty cool, yeah.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Karranthain

[Agiel]

Olivier Ledroit of Requiem Chevalier Vampire fame (if you have not read it, DO).

 

 

 

Ostentatious? Yes, but look into more of this guy's stuff and you would have wished bringing him on board was one of the stretch goals.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Agiel

[Agremont]

Skilled, but no thanks. Way to gaudy for my taste.

[Kharador]

Olivier Ledroit of Requiem Chevalier Vampire fame (if you have not read it, DO).

 

 

 

Ostentatious? Yes, but look into more of this guy's stuff and you would have wished bringing him on board was one of the stretch goals.

 

Too exaggerated and useless for me.

I want to discuss other issues related to this. I would like to see different models for the same weapon tier. This would add realism and variety to the game. What do you think?

[kenup]

Has this been posted? A bit too old, as in 5th century AD, not exactly what PE is aiming for perhaps?