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Update #16: Reward Updates, Combat with Tim, Mods, and the Mega Dungeon Grows!

project eternity update combat tim cain modding mega dungeon

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#41
Bloody Hypocrite

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I hope you don't give up on PE on the 17th. This is all just the very start of the process, the initial stages of design. Nothing is set in stone.

#42
dunehunter

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I feel quite well with the magic system as long as they arrange encounters in a proper sequence. What I means is that a series of short battle follow a big one, then you won't be able to cast spells within the level of spell you have used up between short battles while the cooldown will be over between two big encounters. And I think this is what they want to achieve, freeing the gamers from the rest system while maintaining an old taste.

#43
Starwars

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The melee combat sounded fine. It's the magic system that doesn't. I suppose I could stick to playing melee characters only.

For those who would like to see me leave the forums, unless Obsidian reverses their position on cooldowns yet again you will get your wish on October 17th when I am certain that there is no longer any chance of them changing their minds. After that you guys can quit arguing and have a big slumber party like the one that seems to be going on in the kickstarter comments. Not my cup of tea at all.


I'm sure we will all be here, firing off salutes when you make your exit from the forums, and the devs will probably cry themselves to sleep that night... And in April of 2014... The game comes out, and we will all be standing there with a single tear running down our cheek, thinking... 'Was he right all along...? Was metiman right?! Was Vancian the answer all along?!'

Anyways, I hope these Q&As will continue. They're a great way to get some info on what is planned.
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#44
bonarbill

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Well it looks like I won't be backing this project after all. Or at best only at the lowest tier. Maybe I should camp at the kickstarter site and wait for a $20 slot to appear. Damn! I wish the devs could make up their minds about the combat dynamics. Sawyer was just on the forum yesterday saying how BG2 combat is going to be nearly indistinguishable from that of PE and now this.

Summary of magic system: DnD 4th Edition meets Dragon Age
1. Magic will be 100% cooldown based. In-combat cooldowns are in. Just per-level and per-grimoire instead of between castings as in Dragon Age.
2. Low level spells will be spammable without limit.
3. Resting is irrelevant. Too much tedium for a modern game.

Justification for cooldown based magic system: Spell casters are otherwise too weak compared to melee classes. Hehe. I'm trying to think of an example of a game where this was true but I'm drawing a blank.

To me, this system does not sound superior to the one in Dragon Age, but then Obsidian never actually promised that it would be.


Does that mean you will stop posting now please?


I rather you stop posting instead. You're twice as annoying and trollish as he is.

#45
Bloody Hypocrite

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Hey folks,
we don't all have to have a big kumbaya here, but I'm pretty sure the reason we're all here is that we love rpgs, especially the IE ones. I'm sure we can all debate different systems without **** devolving into personal attacks.
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#46
Inannachan

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I'm all with the poster saying a soul companion. That would be best to fit with the setting perhaps. A stray soul that became attached. Otherwise I would be happy with a cat or a miniature space hamster, or a mini dragon or anything.

As for the update, I know that there are a couple more people that I've been touting to about the game that is more interested because there is some cooldown on the spells before they run out of use through the day. You may even get more backers from my irc community friends.

#47
Sistergoldring

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I am so excited to hear that you will be supporting mods! I don't know how the game could get any better at this point. Thank-you and have a dancing banana :banana: on me. :wub:

#48
Volourn

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"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!"

That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness.

Don't like the idea at all as described...


Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff.

The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.
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#49
Darth Trethon

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As far as the pet goes I think it should be a mythical creature on a smaller scale.....a small dragon or a phoenix or a ghostly wolf or something.

Maybe what the pet is depends on the class of the player character.

Just some ideas....I'll be happy regardless even if the pet is just a dog or cat or something.

#50
Tanner

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"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!"

That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness.

Don't like the idea at all as described...


Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff.

The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.


If balancing is done correctly, and i hope it will be, "spamming" shouldn't be a problem if low level spells are correctly designed and balanced. And haste was just ridiculously powerful in IE games. And I wouldn't be spamming fireballs with friendly fire either.

Edited by Tanner, 06 October 2012 - 02:10 AM.


#51
Darth Trethon

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"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!"

That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness.

Don't like the idea at all as described...


Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff.

The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.


Abuse? No. Should the warrior have a recharge time before he can swing the sword again? Should the warrior need to reequip/replace his armor after every hit? Or rather should the warrior's armor only protect against a hit or two and then have the warrior wait a recharge period before replacing it? Haste just increases movement speed, big deal....wizards should have some benefits too. So why shouldn't a wizard/cipher have a basic attack that is always available? Seriously people, please think before you post.
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#52
Volourn

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Take a gander at the DnD spell list - there are plenty of low level spells ripe for abuse if they could be spammed non stopped and weren't limited to per day castings. How bout lightning bolt, improved invisibility, flame arrow, and likely a host of others I'm missing.

P.S. I know the game isn't using DnD spell lists but since they're likely to cover many DnDisque spells.. major abuse cna be coming...


"buse? No. Should the warrior have a recharge time before he can swing the sword again? Should the warrior need to reequip/replace his armor after every hit? Or rather should the warrior's armor only protect against a hit or two and then have the warrior wait a recharge period before replacing it? Haste just increases movement speed, big deal....wizards should have some benefits too. So why shouldn't a wizard/cipher have a basic attack that is always available? Seriously people, please think before you post."

Are you REALLY comapring a warrior's sword to a wizard's fireball spell? ARE U KIDDIN' ME!

The wizard is alreayd more pwoerful than a iwizard - it doesn't need a helping hand. A mage's basic every round attack should not outdamge a warrior. In this system, a mage would never need to carry a weapon or be vulnerible sicne they just spam their defensive spells as well as their offensive spells. LAME

Seriously people, think before you post.

Edited by Volourn, 06 October 2012 - 02:19 AM.


#53
Inannachan

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Or perhaps a floating skull for a pet?
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#54
Bloody Hypocrite

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I believe Tim mentioned that there was still a limit on low level spells. Even if there's a basic magic attack, it just replaces giving your mage a sling as a default attack.

#55
stkaye

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I agree that spellcasters can get bored, particularly in the early game, running out of cool class-specific things to do.

I don't agree that the way to deal with this is to make low-level spells infinitely reusable. The opening game, where first level spells are all you've got, could see mages becoming too powerful, and it will make scaling the power of these useful first-level spells later (a la magic missile) a headache.

An alternative would be to provide class-specific magic abilities that are specifically designed to be reusable, but are never preferable to a specialised, memorised spell alternative. So a selection of basic magic blasts that can throw enemies around or damage/stun groups/individuals. These options could even be customisable as part of the character creation process - a fire mage could get a fire ability, etc.
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#56
metiman

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"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!"

That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness.

Don't like the idea at all as described...


Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff.

The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.


Abuse? No. Should the warrior have a recharge time before he can swing the sword again? Should the warrior need to reequip/replace his armor after every hit? Or rather should the warrior's armor only protect against a hit or two and then have the warrior wait a recharge period before replacing it? Haste just increases movement speed, big deal....wizards should have some benefits too. So why shouldn't a wizard/cipher have a basic attack that is always available? Seriously people, please think before you post.


Apples and oranges. The system is not between-spell cooldowns. It's by-level cooldowns. If you are going for fairness then I think that fighters should have a fatigue pool and should have cooldowns every so often to simulate the fact that no human (or presumably humanoid) can continuously swing a melee weapon for all that long. At least not without his swings reducing in power. Frankly they probably should have just gone with a game-wide fatigue system as has been suggested in the forums where every class has a fatigue pool they have to manage.

#57
Elerond

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"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!"

That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness.

Don't like the idea at all as described...


Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff.

The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.


I think those infinitely recastable low-level would be in D&D terms be Level 0 spells. Which were spells what your caster cast when s/he didn't anything else to cast and sometimes not even then. Fireball and stoneskin were medium level spells in D&D. So they are spells to replace sling or darts (which in d&d usually did more damage than level 0 spells).

Edited by Elerond, 06 October 2012 - 02:27 AM.


#58
metiman

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I believe Tim mentioned that there was still a limit on low level spells. Even if there's a basic magic attack, it just replaces giving your mage a sling as a default attack.


When did Tim say this? It's not in the video, is it?

#59
Darth Trethon

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Take a gander at the DnD spell list - there are plenty of low level spells ripe for abuse if they could be spammed non stopped and weren't limited to per day castings. How bout lightning bolt, improved invisibility, flame arrow, and likely a host of others I'm missing.

P.S. I know the game isn't using DnD spell lists but since they're likely to cover many DnDisque spells.. major abuse cna be coming...


"buse? No. Should the warrior have a recharge time before he can swing the sword again? Should the warrior need to reequip/replace his armor after every hit? Or rather should the warrior's armor only protect against a hit or two and then have the warrior wait a recharge period before replacing it? Haste just increases movement speed, big deal....wizards should have some benefits too. So why shouldn't a wizard/cipher have a basic attack that is always available? Seriously people, please think before you post."

Are you REALLY comapring a warrior's sword to a wizard's fireball spell? ARE U KIDDIN' ME!

The wizard is alreayd more pwoerful than a iwizard - it doesn't need a helping hand. A mage's basic every round attack should not outdamge a warrior. In this system, a mage would never need to carry a weapon or be vulnerible sicne they just spam their defensive spells as well as their offensive spells. LAME

Seriously people, think before you post.


It's not in how may times a spell is cast but in how much damage it does....hence low level spells should be made as such. So what if a wizard/cipher has both offense and defense at the same time? Should the warrior take his armor off before swinging the sword?

#60
Phekdra

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Loved Tim's talk about combat - now I'm even more excited about the game! :aiee: I had a bit of a chill when he mentioned that cooldowns would be used, but the explanation makes sense so I will bite my tongue. Nice to know I'm also getting a hard back version of the book. I can't believe I'm considering about upping my pledge after that video - I'm getting short of breath when I think about how much I'm spending on a game!





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