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The Role of Rogues?

rouge dps skill backstab role

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#261
Dragoonlordz

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I think rogues should be as good as fighters. Now the amount of damage done would be related to stats obviously given game is based on stats and skills but I see no major reason to nerf the combat ability of a rogue vs warrior if both had same stats and same weapon. They do however need their own 'hooks' as others put it. Healer only one with healing spells, a necromancer would be only one whho could control the undead, a rogue only one who knows how to pickpocket, traps and stealth etc. Forcing the classes into (only) one role like healer only heal, rogue only traps and pickpocket but bad at everything else etc seems bad to me. I don't think it is a good thing to have entire party wiped out just because warrior dies and you have made every other class suck at direct fighting.

Edited by Dragoonlordz, 12 December 2012 - 05:41 AM.


#262
FlintlockJazz

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FYI, they added a mechanic called "Skirmish" later on that you'd probably use for a Swashbuckler or pirate instead. First time I saw it was with the Scout class, but I don't see why it couldn't be borrowed and thrown in as a Sneak Attack substitute for Rogues..


See, that choice is kinda what I'm arguing for. While I don't know how effective that skirmish option was, if they made sneak attack an option rather than there by default it would make for more possible rogues that could fit different playstyles. Want to be the backstabbing assassin? Then you can take the Assassin branch and develop things like sneak attack, but if you want to be a pirate instead you could take the 'YARR' branch instead that gives you other skills like dirty fighting techniques!

this and only this is why I think the rogue should be a debuffer. not because I'm a particular fan of playing my rogue that way, but because if you want all classes to be viable in combat (as I believe I read somewhere the intent is) you best have something fun and tactical for the rogue to do.Once the rogue has a role in combat other than just the backstab/sneak attack, you can re-imagine the class and it's purpose.


Yeah, I agree totally, I think the rogue does need some serious reworking because as it stands, for a 'core' class it's rather limited and situational at the moment compared to the other core classes (Fighter, Priest and Mage).

#263
Osvir

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FYI, they added a mechanic called "Skirmish" later on that you'd probably use for a Swashbuckler or pirate instead. First time I saw it was with the Scout class, but I don't see why it couldn't be borrowed and thrown in as a Sneak Attack substitute for Rogues..


See, that choice is kinda what I'm arguing for. While I don't know how effective that skirmish option was, if they made sneak attack an option rather than there by default it would make for more possible rogues that could fit different playstyles. Want to be the backstabbing assassin? Then you can take the Assassin branch and develop things like sneak attack, but if you want to be a pirate instead you could take the 'YARR' branch instead that gives you other skills like dirty fighting techniques!


This thought popped up a week or so ago when discussing Ciphers. Are Rogues the only class applicable to being an Assassin? I'd like to argue against that.

Rogues are more applicable to being thieves. A James Bond character, agile, unpredictable and very intelligent. Street smart. Scum of the Slum. The Rogue doesn't feel like he was trained to do damage, or trained to sneak into buildings (infiltrating) and take someones life, sure, probably take some gold or valuables for his own journeys and adventures, but taking a life? No, I can't see it. Not by profession, way of life. A Rogue with a nasty personality? Sure, but not the everyday hitchhiker~traveler. No.

Thief is not "Assassin", that's my conclusion. Let's take a look at what Ciphers are and see if they fit the Assassin role... yes, most definitely. Soul manipulating, soul eating S.O.B's with psionic abilities? Mind reading, keeps to themselves, possibly what people would call "Gifted" or be afraid of (Spec Ops), heck maybe not even knowing about them. Mind Control? Mind Erasing? What can the Cipher do? I think about "Ghost" (StarCraft) when I look at Ciphers. An applicable Assassin? Yes.

I linked here from there but doing the vice-versa here. Torches!

I would say keep them where you can see if you want them to be effective, so if they leave the 'light pool' their critical miss chance and other stats change, so that they are more likely to be hit, hurt themselves or friendlies, etc.


This should be difficulty based. I don't want my party to miss too much or be all critically dangerous to themselves on Easy up to Normal, whilst on Hard and Expert it should be noticeably different.

Could the Rogue+Cipher have the ability to critical hit in "darkness"/shadows, whilst the rest of the classes can only deal normal damage in "darkness"/shadows? The Rogue should be accustomed to darkness, regardless if having a nightvision thing~ or not. So if darkness is going to be penalizing somehow, I would like to see the Rogue (and other shadow curious classes, e.g., Cipher) not get as much penalties.

I am including the Cipher in the sentence because I see it possibly having an Assassin Kit more so than the Rogue having it (I see the Rogue having a Thief Kit).



#264
ogrezilla

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Sure, a Thief isn't an Assassin. And a Rogue isn't a Thief. A Rogue is an unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. Or someone operating outside normal or desirable controls. That might lead them to steal things. Or it might lead them to assassinate people. The main thing to expect from a Rogue is for them to have little respect for honor, the law and a fair challenge. They will do what they can to tilt the odds in their favor. Dirty tricks should be expected. But whether they are using these tricks to steal or fight or murder is completely left out of the definition of Rogue.

Edited by ogrezilla, 13 December 2012 - 06:03 AM.

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#265
Osvir

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True. But an "Assassin" implies that the person has been trained, by profession, to be a killer. "Hitman" springs to mind. Something I feel that the Rogue falls short on. To me, the very essence of the Rogue lies in wandering, drifting, adventuring. A skilled Rogue, who is possibly a bad person too, is skilled enough to be able to kill people. Does the act of killing/murdering imply that the person is an assassin? Yes and no. If hired as a mercenary, which I can see the Rogue being, yes, a Rogue being a Contractor for shoddy and dirty tricks, the act of killing as well. But that's that, a Contractor, not an Assassin.

Really though, I'm just arguing against a straw man (I think? I don't really grasp the concept of what "straw man" is yet).

If the Cipher could focus on the "Assassin" part (being DPS, the thing many seems to not want from the Rogue come 3rd Edition, what with the backstabbing and all), the Rogue could focus on the "Thief" part.

Instead of putting both of them on the Rogue. What started in this thread, how I see it, people want something like this:

Rogue (Support in itself?):
- Possibility to go Assassin Kit
- Possibility to go Thief Kit

Balancing a class with these two taken into consideration seems like a bit much, this is how I thought:

Rogue
- Thief Kit

Cipher
- Assassin Kit

I didn't do well in school but one thing I remember is my teachers, and in the homework, always telling me "Motivate", "Why", "How" and so on. Specially in mathematics, you can easily solve 1+1 but we had to tell how we were thinking as well.

If the Rogue focuses on a Support role, not with the intention to being good in combat but out of combat, we could get a True Support character in P:E. Someone who just won't be good in combat and has to dodge, evade and sneak his way through some encounters.

League of Legends reference: I only play Support. A Support role can't do anything by him/herself, hardly really. Pretty much everyone can take down the support, even the sort of Support I play can be taken down by the enemy team Support. It isn't about dishing out a ton of damage, it is about protecting the team, whilst distracting the enemy. The Support is mostly the weakest, squishy and goes down in a couple of hits, but with the abilities the Support has (I almost wrote Rogue) he/she can get away from difficult encounters.

As Janna I can get away 1v5, I can't deal any damage (a tiny amount), what matters is that I can survive. The Survivability of a Support is amazing, if all skills are utilized properly in the right way. That's how I see the Rogue, and I do hope that it could fulfill that role.

The Rogue could have nets, grappling hooks, on-the-fly-Traps, acid potions that they throw, smoke bombs. Batman utility in a sense.

If the Rogue is focused on being a Support, and doesn't need to think about being part of the "Assassin Kit" (that modern games make it into) it could be focused much deeper. Hence why I think the Cipher would be better with the Assassin Kit. The time it takes to implement "Assassin" into Rogue is instead used and implemented into the Cipher.

Example:
Rogue with a Thief role and an "Assassin" role is 100% workload apart from finding the Rogue's place in the world. Instead, giving the Assassin to Cipher you'll look at 50% workload to the Cipher and 50% to the Rogue. Still the same amount of workload but you just managed to cover 2 Classes, instead of addressing just 1. Though, is it an effective method?

I like the idea Obsidian seems to go about with the "Anyone can wield anything, they just won't be as good as those specialized or trained for it from start". Naturally that would mean that the Rogue could go the Assassin route based on what kind of equipment they wear and how they act in battle. That would ease a lot of headaches for developers and players alike, I think.

Edited by Osvir, 13 December 2012 - 11:04 AM.


#266
Somna

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FYI, they added a mechanic called "Skirmish" later on that you'd probably use for a Swashbuckler or pirate instead. First time I saw it was with the Scout class, but I don't see why it couldn't be borrowed and thrown in as a Sneak Attack substitute for Rogues..


See, that choice is kinda what I'm arguing for. While I don't know how effective that skirmish option was, if they made sneak attack an option rather than there by default it would make for more possible rogues that could fit different playstyles. Want to be the backstabbing assassin? Then you can take the Assassin branch and develop things like sneak attack, but if you want to be a pirate instead you could take the 'YARR' branch instead that gives you other skills like dirty fighting techniques!

[...]


I don't know if I will break any rules with a direct copy/paste, so I'll just summarize.

Skirmish gives you bonus damage and bonus AC in any round where you move at least 10 feet. The bonus damage follows the Sneak Attack rules in terms of immunities (i.e. can't be crit immune) and who it can affect except that the flat-footed restriction is replaced by the previously mentioned movement restriction. Damage only goes up every 4 levels instead of 2 and only applies on damage on the user's turn. The bonus AC takes effect as soon as the 10 feet is moved and lasts until you start your turn again. There's also a light armor only restriction.

It's a lot easier to get Skirmish off but you do more damage with Sneak Attack.

#267
Dream

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I always saw rogues as melee glass cannons that relied on dodge and evasive abilities to avoid damage (as opposed to fighters who just took it on the chin).

Edited by Dream, 13 December 2012 - 01:52 PM.


#268
xSigma

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I don't know...cipher assassin?
EDIT: Now that I think about it...that would be pretty darn cool. Think of Serenity , the movie.
I usually play an assassin or thief. Mage being my second option, i'd like them different from my other initial characters.

I agree completely with Ogrezilla

Sure, a Thief isn't an Assassin. And a Rogue isn't a Thief. A Rogue is an unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. Or someone operating outside normal or desirable controls. That might lead them to steal things. Or it might lead them to assassinate people. The main thing to expect from a Rogue is for them to have little respect for honor, the law and a fair challenge. They will do what they can to tilt the odds in their favor. Dirty tricks should be expected. But whether they are using these tricks to steal or fight or murder is completely left out of the definition of Rogue.

This is what I want in my rogue,...this and cloth physics on hooded cloaks...and daggers :)

Edited by xSigma, 13 December 2012 - 05:21 PM.


#269
ogrezilla

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True. But an "Assassin" implies that the person has been trained, by profession, to be a killer. "Hitman" springs to mind. Something I feel that the Rogue falls short on. To me, the very essence of the Rogue lies in wandering, drifting, adventuring. A skilled Rogue, who is possibly a bad person too, is skilled enough to be able to kill people. Does the act of killing/murdering imply that the person is an assassin? Yes and no. If hired as a mercenary, which I can see the Rogue being, yes, a Rogue being a Contractor for shoddy and dirty tricks, the act of killing as well. But that's that, a Contractor, not an Assassin.

Really though, I'm just arguing against a straw man (I think? I don't really grasp the concept of what "straw man" is yet).

If the Cipher could focus on the "Assassin" part (being DPS, the thing many seems to not want from the Rogue come 3rd Edition, what with the backstabbing and all), the Rogue could focus on the "Thief" part.

Instead of putting both of them on the Rogue. What started in this thread, how I see it, people want something like this:

Rogue (Support in itself?):
- Possibility to go Assassin Kit
- Possibility to go Thief Kit

Balancing a class with these two taken into consideration seems like a bit much, this is how I thought:

Rogue
- Thief Kit

Cipher
- Assassin Kit

I didn't do well in school but one thing I remember is my teachers, and in the homework, always telling me "Motivate", "Why", "How" and so on. Specially in mathematics, you can easily solve 1+1 but we had to tell how we were thinking as well.

If the Rogue focuses on a Support role, not with the intention to being good in combat but out of combat, we could get a True Support character in P:E. Someone who just won't be good in combat and has to dodge, evade and sneak his way through some encounters.

League of Legends reference: I only play Support. A Support role can't do anything by him/herself, hardly really. Pretty much everyone can take down the support, even the sort of Support I play can be taken down by the enemy team Support. It isn't about dishing out a ton of damage, it is about protecting the team, whilst distracting the enemy. The Support is mostly the weakest, squishy and goes down in a couple of hits, but with the abilities the Support has (I almost wrote Rogue) he/she can get away from difficult encounters.

As Janna I can get away 1v5, I can't deal any damage (a tiny amount), what matters is that I can survive. The Survivability of a Support is amazing, if all skills are utilized properly in the right way. That's how I see the Rogue, and I do hope that it could fulfill that role.

The Rogue could have nets, grappling hooks, on-the-fly-Traps, acid potions that they throw, smoke bombs. Batman utility in a sense.

If the Rogue is focused on being a Support, and doesn't need to think about being part of the "Assassin Kit" (that modern games make it into) it could be focused much deeper. Hence why I think the Cipher would be better with the Assassin Kit. The time it takes to implement "Assassin" into Rogue is instead used and implemented into the Cipher.

Example:
Rogue with a Thief role and an "Assassin" role is 100% workload apart from finding the Rogue's place in the world. Instead, giving the Assassin to Cipher you'll look at 50% workload to the Cipher and 50% to the Rogue. Still the same amount of workload but you just managed to cover 2 Classes, instead of addressing just 1. Though, is it an effective method?

I like the idea Obsidian seems to go about with the "Anyone can wield anything, they just won't be as good as those specialized or trained for it from start". Naturally that would mean that the Rogue could go the Assassin route based on what kind of equipment they wear and how they act in battle. That would ease a lot of headaches for developers and players alike, I think.


I fully support the type of rogue and cypher you are describing. But I also think rogues should be able to be built to be really good at stabbing people in the back. Even if it just means they are better at getting to the back than other classes; no special damage boost required. I like options within each class.

Edited by ogrezilla, 13 December 2012 - 08:31 PM.

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#270
AlKim

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FYI, they added a mechanic called "Skirmish" later on that you'd probably use for a Swashbuckler or pirate instead. First time I saw it was with the Scout class, but I don't see why it couldn't be borrowed and thrown in as a Sneak Attack substitute for Rogues..

See, that choice is kinda what I'm arguing for. While I don't know how effective that skirmish option was, if they made sneak attack an option rather than there by default it would make for more possible rogues that could fit different playstyles. Want to be the backstabbing assassin? Then you can take the Assassin branch and develop things like sneak attack, but if you want to be a pirate instead you could take the 'YARR' branch instead that gives you other skills like dirty fighting techniques!

[...]

I don't know if I will break any rules with a direct copy/paste, so I'll just summarize.

Skirmish gives you bonus damage and bonus AC in any round where you move at least 10 feet. The bonus damage follows the Sneak Attack rules in terms of immunities (i.e. can't be crit immune) and who it can affect except that the flat-footed restriction is replaced by the previously mentioned movement restriction. Damage only goes up every 4 levels instead of 2 and only applies on damage on the user's turn. The bonus AC takes effect as soon as the 10 feet is moved and lasts until you start your turn again. There's also a light armor only restriction.

It's a lot easier to get Skirmish off but you do more damage with Sneak Attack.

Yeah, Skirmish is ridiculously easy to use (especially with a bow), but the low damage bonus often made me wonder if it's actually worth it because moving more than five feet makes you lose Full Attack. With a decent weapon and maybe a feat or two (I'm looking at you, Rapid Shot), you would actually benefit more from standing still, unless you had to relocate to fire around a corner or something.

#271
Somna

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FYI, they added a mechanic called "Skirmish" later on that you'd probably use for a Swashbuckler or pirate instead. First time I saw it was with the Scout class, but I don't see why it couldn't be borrowed and thrown in as a Sneak Attack substitute for Rogues..

See, that choice is kinda what I'm arguing for. While I don't know how effective that skirmish option was, if they made sneak attack an option rather than there by default it would make for more possible rogues that could fit different playstyles. Want to be the backstabbing assassin? Then you can take the Assassin branch and develop things like sneak attack, but if you want to be a pirate instead you could take the 'YARR' branch instead that gives you other skills like dirty fighting techniques!

[...]

I don't know if I will break any rules with a direct copy/paste, so I'll just summarize.

Skirmish gives you bonus damage and bonus AC in any round where you move at least 10 feet. The bonus damage follows the Sneak Attack rules in terms of immunities (i.e. can't be crit immune) and who it can affect except that the flat-footed restriction is replaced by the previously mentioned movement restriction. Damage only goes up every 4 levels instead of 2 and only applies on damage on the user's turn. The bonus AC takes effect as soon as the 10 feet is moved and lasts until you start your turn again. There's also a light armor only restriction.

It's a lot easier to get Skirmish off but you do more damage with Sneak Attack.

Yeah, Skirmish is ridiculously easy to use (especially with a bow), but the low damage bonus often made me wonder if it's actually worth it because moving more than five feet makes you lose Full Attack. With a decent weapon and maybe a feat or two (I'm looking at you, Rapid Shot), you would actually benefit more from standing still, unless you had to relocate to fire around a corner or something.


Depending on how much splat you incorporated, there are ways to move 10 feet or use your swift action for a move action (and thus trigger Skirmish) and still be able to get a full attack off.

#272
FlintlockJazz

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This thought popped up a week or so ago when discussing Ciphers. Are Rogues the only class applicable to being an Assassin? I'd like to argue against that.

Rogues are more applicable to being thieves. A James Bond character, agile, unpredictable and very intelligent. Street smart. Scum of the Slum. The Rogue doesn't feel like he was trained to do damage, or trained to sneak into buildings (infiltrating) and take someones life, sure, probably take some gold or valuables for his own journeys and adventures, but taking a life? No, I can't see it. Not by profession, way of life. A Rogue with a nasty personality? Sure, but not the everyday hitchhiker~traveler. No.

Thief is not "Assassin", that's my conclusion. Let's take a look at what Ciphers are and see if they fit the Assassin role... yes, most definitely. Soul manipulating, soul eating S.O.B's with psionic abilities? Mind reading, keeps to themselves, possibly what people would call "Gifted" or be afraid of (Spec Ops), heck maybe not even knowing about them. Mind Control? Mind Erasing? What can the Cipher do? I think about "Ghost" (StarCraft) when I look at Ciphers. An applicable Assassin? Yes.

I linked here from there but doing the vice-versa here. Torches!

I would say keep them where you can see if you want them to be effective, so if they leave the 'light pool' their critical miss chance and other stats change, so that they are more likely to be hit, hurt themselves or friendlies, etc.


This should be difficulty based. I don't want my party to miss too much or be all critically dangerous to themselves on Easy up to Normal, whilst on Hard and Expert it should be noticeably different.

Could the Rogue+Cipher have the ability to critical hit in "darkness"/shadows, whilst the rest of the classes can only deal normal damage in "darkness"/shadows? The Rogue should be accustomed to darkness, regardless if having a nightvision thing~ or not. So if darkness is going to be penalizing somehow, I would like to see the Rogue (and other shadow curious classes, e.g., Cipher) not get as much penalties.

I am including the Cipher in the sentence because I see it possibly having an Assassin Kit more so than the Rogue having it (I see the Rogue having a Thief Kit).


Put it that way a cipher assassin would indeed be rather awesome. I still think the 'traditional' assassin using daggers and such could work better as a rogue, but I also think a ranger or even a fighter skilled in stealth would work just as well if not better as an assassin too. I could easily see sneak attack being a part of the ranger's favored enemy benefits as well.

#273
Nixl

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I admit, I always thought of Rogues in the sense Morrowind made them; medium combat with some non-weapons/armor perks. Although in Morrowind, class does not matter all that much, since everything is open to you. Additionally, Obsidian appears keen to keep combat perks/skills separate from non-combat skills. Thus, the Morrowind concept probably would not fit as well.

I agree that the role of damage dealer is not as appealing. On the otherhand, I would much prefer a support or defense oriented design for rogues rather than a thief or steal class.

This is possibly unrelated, but I love the Cipher concept in the post quoted below. The Cipher as an assassin in the sense of a Ghost from Starcraft or the character from Psi Ops seems thrilling. That would bring a unique element to the class in my opinion.

True. But an "Assassin" implies that the person has been trained, by profession, to be a killer. "Hitman" springs to mind. Something I feel that the Rogue falls short on. To me, the very essence of the Rogue lies in wandering, drifting, adventuring. A skilled Rogue, who is possibly a bad person too, is skilled enough to be able to kill people. Does the act of killing/murdering imply that the person is an assassin? Yes and no. If hired as a mercenary, which I can see the Rogue being, yes, a Rogue being a Contractor for shoddy and dirty tricks, the act of killing as well. But that's that, a Contractor, not an Assassin.

Really though, I'm just arguing against a straw man (I think? I don't really grasp the concept of what "straw man" is yet).

If the Cipher could focus on the "Assassin" part (being DPS, the thing many seems to not want from the Rogue come 3rd Edition, what with the backstabbing and all), the Rogue could focus on the "Thief" part.

Instead of putting both of them on the Rogue. What started in this thread, how I see it, people want something like this:

Rogue (Support in itself?):
- Possibility to go Assassin Kit
- Possibility to go Thief Kit

Balancing a class with these two taken into consideration seems like a bit much, this is how I thought:

Rogue
- Thief Kit

Cipher
- Assassin Kit



Edited by Nixl, 14 December 2012 - 03:40 PM.


#274
JFSOCC

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Sure, a Thief isn't an Assassin. And a Rogue isn't a Thief. A Rogue is an unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. Or someone operating outside normal or desirable controls. That might lead them to steal things. Or it might lead them to assassinate people. The main thing to expect from a Rogue is for them to have little respect for honor, the law and a fair challenge. They will do what they can to tilt the odds in their favor. Dirty tricks should be expected. But whether they are using these tricks to steal or fight or murder is completely left out of the definition of Rogue.

True. But an "Assassin" implies that the person has been trained, by profession, to be a killer. "Hitman" springs to mind. Something I feel that the Rogue falls short on. To me, the very essence of the Rogue lies in wandering, drifting, adventuring. A skilled Rogue, who is possibly a bad person too, is skilled enough to be able to kill people. Does the act of killing/murdering imply that the person is an assassin? Yes and no. If hired as a mercenary, which I can see the Rogue being, yes, a Rogue being a Contractor for shoddy and dirty tricks, the act of killing as well. But that's that, a Contractor, not an Assassin.

Really though, I'm just arguing against a straw man (I think? I don't really grasp the concept of what "straw man" is yet).

If the Cipher could focus on the "Assassin" part (being DPS, the thing many seems to not want from the Rogue come 3rd Edition, what with the backstabbing and all), the Rogue could focus on the "Thief" part.

Instead of putting both of them on the Rogue. What started in this thread, how I see it, people want something like this:

Rogue (Support in itself?):
- Possibility to go Assassin Kit
- Possibility to go Thief Kit

Balancing a class with these two taken into consideration seems like a bit much, this is how I thought:

Rogue
- Thief Kit

Cipher
- Assassin Kit

I didn't do well in school but one thing I remember is my teachers, and in the homework, always telling me "Motivate", "Why", "How" and so on. Specially in mathematics, you can easily solve 1+1 but we had to tell how we were thinking as well.

If the Rogue focuses on a Support role, not with the intention to being good in combat but out of combat, we could get a True Support character in P:E. Someone who just won't be good in combat and has to dodge, evade and sneak his way through some encounters.

League of Legends reference: I only play Support. A Support role can't do anything by him/herself, hardly really. Pretty much everyone can take down the support, even the sort of Support I play can be taken down by the enemy team Support. It isn't about dishing out a ton of damage, it is about protecting the team, whilst distracting the enemy. The Support is mostly the weakest, squishy and goes down in a couple of hits, but with the abilities the Support has (I almost wrote Rogue) he/she can get away from difficult encounters.

As Janna I can get away 1v5, I can't deal any damage (a tiny amount), what matters is that I can survive. The Survivability of a Support is amazing, if all skills are utilized properly in the right way. That's how I see the Rogue, and I do hope that it could fulfill that role.

The Rogue could have nets, grappling hooks, on-the-fly-Traps, acid potions that they throw, smoke bombs. Batman utility in a sense.

If the Rogue is focused on being a Support, and doesn't need to think about being part of the "Assassin Kit" (that modern games make it into) it could be focused much deeper. Hence why I think the Cipher would be better with the Assassin Kit. The time it takes to implement "Assassin" into Rogue is instead used and implemented into the Cipher.

Example:
Rogue with a Thief role and an "Assassin" role is 100% workload apart from finding the Rogue's place in the world. Instead, giving the Assassin to Cipher you'll look at 50% workload to the Cipher and 50% to the Rogue. Still the same amount of workload but you just managed to cover 2 Classes, instead of addressing just 1. Though, is it an effective method?

I like the idea Obsidian seems to go about with the "Anyone can wield anything, they just won't be as good as those specialized or trained for it from start". Naturally that would mean that the Rogue could go the Assassin route based on what kind of equipment they wear and how they act in battle. That would ease a lot of headaches for developers and players alike, I think.

I play my rogue characters as an "Agent" IE a professional spy/saboteur.

#275
Osvir

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As this is the "Role of the Rogue" thread, how will "Stealth" work? (in essence: Hide in Shadows)

With a game with souls and I recall some discussion (and Obs statements) on "Hide in Shadows" would be some sort of "magical veil"... could the Rogue be able to draw on the soul of a shadow and be able to move from one shadow to another in darkness? (duration-based, so you have to move to the other shadow or else you're going to go "visible").

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Dragoonlordz

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As this is the "Role of the Rogue" thread, how will "Stealth" work? (in essence: Hide in Shadows)

With a game with souls and I recall some discussion (and Obs statements) on "Hide in Shadows" would be some sort of "magical veil"... could the Rogue be able to draw on the soul of a shadow and be able to move from one shadow to another in darkness? (duration-based, so you have to move to the other shadow or else you're going to go "visible").


Take on the illusion of a previous living person or creature, using the soul of a deceased maybe? Might seem like shapeshifting though but in reality is merely masking your true identity. I don't thinking hiding is limited to disappearing but also ability to blend in, not get noticed for what you truly are. That would be my ideal skill for stealth and less generic than the vanish in puff of smoke that most games rely on.

Edited by Dragoonlordz, 15 December 2012 - 06:51 AM.

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Osvir

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For a second there I thought this was this thread Dragoonlordz :p

Awesome suggestion though.





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