curryinahurry Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 A Templar type of Paladin can be a subset of the cleric class A Cavalier type of knight can be a subset of the fighter class Bards can be a subset of the rogue class There really is no need for an entirely new class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sistergoldring Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 @curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them. 2 The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCParry Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I am almost positive from the description of the rogue class, bard will be available as an option. Skills like diplomacy and persuasion (courtesan and diplomat) are already mentioned in the description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaShard Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Police don't have a problem being Lawful Good why would a Paladin not make sense? Just because we don't have alignment doesn't mean there isn't good/evil. There was plenty of characters spouting about both in Skyrim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 @curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them. Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D? I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merin Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Bottom line: Paladin good and evil is a child's good and evil. [...] Paladins just don't make sense in PE. Quote of the day: "I don't like a class, so they must be childish" ^^ But seriously, if you don't like Paladins, then that is okay. I don't really like Monks either, but I know that many people enjoy this class and that is why I think they should be in the game. It is as simple as that. Are we just voting on classes, and are limited to certain ones? If we're playing that game, I'm spending all my votes on getting rid of rogues. And I'll buy some votes, too. .... or, we could just let Obsidian see how many people want them and decide if the next (increasingly unlikely to be reached) stretch goal would make sense to include Bards & Paladins. I think that's better. Let us pay for it, and the "resources needed" will be the stretch goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieo Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Answer about paladins from Feargus, today's Kickstarter Q&A brought to you by Ink Blot: Question: Will the classes be extremely close to the old DnD style or are they going to have their own unique flavor? Feargus: They will have the DnD feeling but with some fun twists. In other words, not that there will be Paladins, , but if there were to be Paladins - they will feel like them but be tied into how magic and the gods work in the world of PE. I much prefer this approach with "paladin"--the word is just way too loaded with underlying expectation of alignment and everything else. Edited October 5, 2012 by Ieo The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book. Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most? PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE. "But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger) "Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sistergoldring Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 @curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them. Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D? I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes. I don't think this is mutually exclusive. I think you can have a flexible system and still include traditional subclasses without it being a huge drain on resources. Where the titles have importance is that when people choose these I guess iconic roles to play they want to have who they are reflected in the game. So for someone playing as a Paladin it would be frustrating for them if in-game they were reacted to as a standard healer cleric. The same would go for a bard, you want to be treated as a wandering minstrel rather than as a catburgler - does that make sense? Also in a text based game I can't see why this would be a problematic feature for them to include. After all it's largely a matter of typing 'Hello Lord-Knight' instead of 'Hello Holy Father' I imagine. The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The problem is how is the game going to recognize that you have fallen if it doesn't log some kind of "morality points"? Paladin would belong to an order, so having to maintain a high (very high) faction rating? 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Evenstar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think that classes should be rooted in the lore of the universe and fill a distinct role in the combat/skill systems of the game. If paladins and bards satisfy those criteria, then sure. If they don't, then no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 People need to stop underestimating the power of metal. 1 Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 @curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them. Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D? I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes. I don't think this is mutually exclusive. I think you can have a flexible system and still include traditional subclasses without it being a huge drain on resources. Where the titles have importance is that when people choose these I guess iconic roles to play they want to have who they are reflected in the game. So for someone playing as a Paladin it would be frustrating for them if in-game they were reacted to as a standard healer cleric. The same would go for a bard, you want to be treated as a wandering minstrel rather than as a catburgler - does that make sense? Also in a text based game I can't see why this would be a problematic feature for them to include. After all it's largely a matter of typing 'Hello Lord-Knight' instead of 'Hello Holy Father' I imagine. Makes sense. I guess are preferences are just different Not sure if I can explain mine eloquently, but I prefer to be acknowledged for my actions (i.e. the faction reputation) rather than a preset class. If I show my ugly face and the villagers flee screaming away from me, I want to be because I've killed a larger number of "villager class" and so they have come to fear me, not because I picked "Barbarian" as my starting preset. I know it's not going to happen to that level of detail, but one could always hope. 2 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curryinahurry Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 @curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them. Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D? I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes. This is what I was getting at with my post, agreed. I think that if people want honorifics, then Obsidian can possibly include them with factions (quests for a religious order re paladin type, or guild membership for bard type). But I wouldn't want Obsidian to waste a lot of time on these features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sistergoldring Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Not sure if I can explain mine eloquently, but I prefer to be acknowledged for my actions (i.e. the faction reputation) rather than a preset class. If I show my ugly face and the villagers flee screaming away from me, I want to be because I've killed a larger number of "villager class" and so they have come to fear me, not because I picked "Barbarian" as my starting preset. I know it's not going to happen to that level of detail, but one could always hope. You know I 100% agree with you. I think where it gets interesting for people who do choose to play as a 'defined' subclass like Paladin is that in addition to being treated poorly for their choices they want the villagers to react with a ' (horrified) I thought you were here to save us!' response and hopefully get kicked out of their order if they accumulate enough evil deeds (or just piss off the wrong faction). People who like playing this way want expectations on their behaviour even if they are going all out to disappoint those expectations because of what they are supposed to represent. The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvir Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it. Fighter/Priest = Paladin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sistergoldring Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it. Fighter/Priest = Paladin? Yes they could but without recognition the choice is meaningless. The Divine Marshmallow shall succour the souls of the Righteous with his sweetness while the Faithless writhe in the molten syrup of his wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamerlane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter? Couldn't and elf be a human? Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivex5k Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah I'd love to see a bard in this game! Different instruments would be tight. Ultima Online had the coolest bard skills, but it was still very limited. The songs could be treated as spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it. I don't see how. A Rogue is more Fighter oriented with stealth and sneak attacks, whereas the Bard is more on the Mage side of things with spells and songs. Bards have an arcane source similar to Mages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypevosa Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it. I don't see how. A Rogue is more Fighter oriented with stealth and sneak attacks, whereas the Bard is more on the Mage side of things with spells and songs. Bards have an arcane source similar to Mages. except here where everyone can take power from souls for certain things. In this universe a bard could easily be a rogue who has learned to channel soul into music and spell instead of focusing on stealth powers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvir Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter? Couldn't and elf be a human? Couldn't a human be a dwarf? EDIT: http://en.wikipedia..../Rogue_(vagrant) A rogue is a vagrant person who wanders from place to place. Like a drifter, a rogue is an independent person who rejects conventional rules of society in favor of following their own personal goals and values. Reading this Wikipedia makes me feel more like a Bard is a Rogue, specially after reading con artist in there somewhere xD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard Edited October 5, 2012 by Osvir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypevosa Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter? Couldn't and elf be a human? Couldn't a human be a dwarf? that raises an interesting question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImNotCreative Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter? Couldn't and elf be a human? Couldn't a human be a dwarf? Yes, yes and yes. Have you never role played an elf who is actually a human (race reassignment surgery) but thinks that he is dwarf? Edited October 5, 2012 by ImNotCreative 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Couldn't a human be a dwarf? They already are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism How many dwarfs in real life do you know that aren't human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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