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Honestly never was fan of psionics, since they are not less generic than wizards. But this time I'm interested how they make use of souls and how the world will react on you.

 

They are supposed to be very few so I don't see most of the PE world actually being aware of Ciphers but the few that are should have quite interesting reactions I think.

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The word cipher was around in medieval times so I think we are good.

 

I was commencting on the sound of it.

 

Cipher sounds less modern than psionic. I guess they could have gone with something like "Mentalist" or what not. But cipher sounds good to me.

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The word cipher was around in medieval times so I think we are good.

 

I was commencting on the sound of it.

 

Cipher sounds less modern than psionic. I guess they could have gone with something like "Mentalist" or what not. But cipher sounds good to me.

 

Cipher sounds like something that could fit right in the Cyberpunk setting, for an instance.

Well, at least to me ;) It's just a name though.

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As a long time D&D player, I've seen many times where the DM refuses to allow players to field Psionics, for various reasons, namely due to the fact that being able to manipulate outcomes and landscapes in story-breaking ways tends to be very dissuasive. While seeing the standard people chucking, mindf**king, rule breaking powers would naturally be fun, I would dearly like to RP a Psionic who mindf**ked himself, whether to block out a painful experience or to hide a secret. The type of questions you can ask; WHY did I do it, or worse, DID I really mindf**k myself, or did someone else do it to me, or was I mindf**ked at all? I would assume this will lead to a lot of performance issues in the future for this character ;D

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My first character in D&D had a natural psionic talent. I think it was Psionic Blast. Lot of fun. There after I always enjoyed Psionics even if often it came down to Psionics = magic, but a little different.

hah, i remember hacking on the "unleash" ability to my fighters or rogues in BG2 once or twice a day because it looked an awful lot like a tk blast that a psion would use...

 

ahh, good old ShadowKeeper...how I abused the hell out of thee...

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I'd like to see Ciphers, and mind control in general, incorporated in an intelligent way. Say there's a woman who's grieving over her husband who was brutally murdered by burgulars trying to get a magical necklace from her house. Grief has destroyed her life - all her friends and family have deserted her for being as she is - and the reason why she can't get over her grief is not because her husband is dead, but because of the horrible and mentally scarring manner in which he was killed right in front of her. Now as a cipher would it be right to alter her memories so that her husband died in a manner that was much more peaceful, knowing that the are no other people left around to remind her of the truth? Is it right to make this call knowing that if you asked her she would tell you she wanted to remember the truth, but also being sure of the fact that if you did alter her memories she could finally be happy and at peace? In a broader sense, is mind control always inherently a violation, even if it can be used for good? That's how I'd like to see ciphers used in this game, also mind controlling the bad guys and making them fight each other is always fun.

Mind control and telepathy are things that would make designing quests properly extremely hard as they would almost always offer easy solutions or at least new options. Don't know how they could pull that off.

 

On the other hand, if being a mind mage just means 'Fire damage is now Psychic damage' there's not much point to the class.

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Ciphers, while they definitely should have their combat options through precognition and telekinesis could primarily be a more social "investigative" class...

 

 

for example, your team is cornered by a group of bandits...sure you could crush the Bandit leaders spine with your mind, but wouldn't it be just as satisfying to reveal one of his dirty secrets to his men and watch them turn on each other like a pack of hungry dogs?

 

the possibilities of the cipher are endless...truly excited about this class.

Edited by NerdBoner
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Mind control and telepathy are things that would make designing quests properly extremely hard as they would almost always offer easy solutions or at least new options. Don't know how they could pull that off.
Both Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines: Revenge of the Colon and Divinity 2 have done things in this regard. And yeah, it provides new and easy solutions to some quests. Heck, Arcanum let you speak to the dead, which was tremendously helpful in finding out who killed him.

 

With people who have DM experience at the helm, I hope they can fit it in the scope.

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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
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Psionics have great potential as long as they are handled well on a mechanical level. Hopefully they will feel more like their own thing rather than Wizards with blue and purple spell effects, add in the odd illusion spell. A social aspect to it would be really cool too. Divinity 2 kind of scratched the surface with mind reading, but it was a lot more playful and comical. Would be nice if Obsidian added in something like that too, but I won't be holding my breath. In any case, Cipher or Druid will be my day 1 character, guaranteed.

Edited by Hobo Elf
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I always liked the idea of mentalist/psionic styled characters. They're rarely done well, and tend to end up as mind mages (I throw mind blasts instead of fireballs!) more than, "I mess with your head in dialogue to amusing effect" which, I'd think, would be the majority of the fun.

 

Mind control and telepathy are things that would make designing quests properly extremely hard as they would almost always offer easy solutions or at least new options. Don't know how they could pull that off.
Both Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines: Revenge of the Colon and Divinity 2 have done things in this regard. And yeah, it provides new and easy solutions to some quests. Heck, Arcanum let you speak to the dead, which was tremendously helpful in finding out who killed him.

 

With people who have DM experience at the helm, I hope they can fit it in the scope.

 

VtM: Bloodlines did it much better out of the two (VtM ad Divinity 2), or at least I thought so.

"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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Psionics have great potential as long as they are handled well on a mechanical level. Hopefully they will feel more like their own thing rather than Wizards with blue and purple spell effects, add in the odd illusion spell. A social aspect to it would be really cool too. Divinity 2 kind of scratched the surface with mind reading, but it was a lot more playful and comical. Would be nice if Obsidian added in something like that too, but I won't be holding my breath. In any case, Cipher or Druid will be my day 1 character, guaranteed.

 

I just see it as introducing a nearly identical mechanic. Using psionics to persuade someone rather can casting Charm or Friendship. It's science fiction vs. medieval fantasy. I would rather them spend their efforts creating spells which influence the mind, rather than an entire new class and mechanic to achieve the same effect.

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Psionics have great potential as long as they are handled well on a mechanical level. Hopefully they will feel more like their own thing rather than Wizards with blue and purple spell effects, add in the odd illusion spell. A social aspect to it would be really cool too. Divinity 2 kind of scratched the surface with mind reading, but it was a lot more playful and comical. Would be nice if Obsidian added in something like that too, but I won't be holding my breath. In any case, Cipher or Druid will be my day 1 character, guaranteed.

 

I just see it as introducing a nearly identical mechanic. Using psionics to persuade someone rather can casting Charm or Friendship. It's science fiction vs. medieval fantasy. I would rather them spend their efforts creating spells which influence the mind, rather than an entire new class and mechanic to achieve the same effect.

look man, it all boils down to this: Ciphers are cool cats who wield guns and swords, wear long black trench coats and get all the wimminz just by being cool as ice...

 

mages are nerdy pocket protector types that wear dresses, glasses with tape in the middle and who are friend-zoned the instant they meet a co-ed npc...

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I love this Class idea. I'm looking forward to seeing if i can create a multiclassed Rogue/Cipher. I know it sounds a bit strange, but depending on how the Cipher and Rogue mechanics work it could actually be more potent that the cliche Rogue/Mage combo usually employed in the other IE games. The Cipher/Rogue could manipulate any NPC without fail considering the combo of a High charisma, and Psionic abilities, it gives the Rogue lots of potential to protect himself beyond hoping he will dodge every time something comes his way, Cipher abilities (whatever they turn out to be) could potentially debuff enemies or just plain nuke them to near death, and then he could go in and finish them with the typical Rogue Backstab mechanic. Wherever P:E decides to take this Class i can see this particular multiclass being extremely dangerous, and effective in combat or out. I'm gonna hope for news soon on how exactly they will work. :) Good Job so far P:E.

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^ i don't think there is multi-classing but think there are going to be cross class abilities and skills available judging by how mages can purportedly wear plate-male and wield two handed swords now...

 

so a cipher with rogue-like abilities sounds quite possible...and very intriguing.

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I just see it as introducing a nearly identical mechanic. Using psionics to persuade someone rather can casting Charm or Friendship. It's science fiction vs. medieval fantasy. I would rather them spend their efforts creating spells which influence the mind, rather than an entire new class and mechanic to achieve the same effect.

 

Psionics != sci-fi. It's a fantastical effect that has nothing to do with levels of science or technology. It's like calling the Force sci-fi, which it's not. The division of magic into environment-altering effects (wizards) and mental effects (ciphers) is no less arbitrary than the division into arcane blasters and divine healers. It's specialisation of a school of magic, with the potential to have a much deeper treatment than vanilla enchantment spells. Your assumption that it'll just be "the same effect" is unfounded.

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I just see it as introducing a nearly identical mechanic. Using psionics to persuade someone rather can casting Charm or Friendship. It's science fiction vs. medieval fantasy. I would rather them spend their efforts creating spells which influence the mind, rather than an entire new class and mechanic to achieve the same effect.

 

Psionics != sci-fi. It's a fantastical effect that has nothing to do with levels of science or technology. It's like calling the Force sci-fi, which it's not. The division of magic into environment-altering effects (wizards) and mental effects (ciphers) is no less arbitrary than the division into arcane blasters and divine healers. It's specialisation of a school of magic, with the potential to have a much deeper treatment than vanilla enchantment spells. Your assumption that it'll just be "the same effect" is unfounded.

 

So you're saying that a Psion is only a semantic change from a Wizard? That both classes use their force of will to manipulate magic/reality in the same manner? That's not a very compelling argument to make a distinction for a new class and mechanic. Illusionist & Enchanters already exist, and their title distinguishes them as specialists in mind manipulating magic, while still recognizing them for what they are--a Wizard.

 

The distinction between Psion and Wizad is just a supernatural versus magical. If these systems produce identical effects, then developing a parrallel system is pointless. If it is merely a title difference to denote a specialization, then it is even more pointless. Furthermore, there is very reasonable suspicion that the abilities will be redundant, because using magic to produce mind altering effects are already abundant and well established (Sleep, Hold, Charm, Suggestion, etc.)

Edited by Mr. Magniloquent
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Technically within the setting everyone is pulling the energies from their souls, and are simply able by nature, or trained/studied to use them differently. One uses those energies to craft spells. One uses those energies to manipulate minds. If the Wizard crafts spells to manipulate minds as well the question is, are they they same, and if so, are the efforts/components/words involved the same. For example if the Cipher's a purely mental effort, while the Wizard's an effort that requires a material component or a verbal one.

 

Still, one would assume that there is difference beyond simply the effort involved. We haven't seen a full list of abilities, so the result may simply be that there is no cross over - that they do not have access to the same abilities.

"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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Technically within the setting everyone is pulling the energies from their souls, and are simply able by nature, or trained/studied to use them differently. One uses those energies to craft spells. One uses those energies to manipulate minds. If the Wizard crafts spells to manipulate minds as well the question is, are they they same, and if so, are the efforts/components/words involved the same. For example if the Cipher's a purely mental effort, while the Wizard's an effort that requires a material component or a verbal one.

 

Still, one would assume that there is difference beyond simply the effort involved. We haven't seen a full list of abilities, so the result may simply be that there is no cross over - that they do not have access to the same abilities.

They may have differences like being both able to charm a person but:

Wizard: can only command him to do something for him and not armful to himself or his friends

Chiper: can completely bend his will into doing anything

 

(I think there is such a difference between 2 "charm" spells in Baldur's Gate saga, don't remember about IWD saga)

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