Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Spear and Shield

spear and shield weapons spear shield

  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1
Knott

Knott

    Viking of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 83 posts
  • Location:Norway
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Throughout history the use of a spear and a shield was one of the most used weapon combinations. It was not only cheap, but also higly efficient. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't have been used for thousands of years.

Despite all that, the majority of computer games and Table Top RPGs that includes both shields and spears in the game, they always put in some stupid restriction or limitation that prevents this use of History's favourite.

This might be quite niche, but I would very much like it if Project Eternity is the first cRPG where I can fully employ this time honored fighting tradition to one of the characters.
  • ^Rayne^, FlintlockJazz, Thulean and 11 others like this

#2
Thulean

Thulean

    Warmaster of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Location:New England
If a spear is too big to wield in one hand isn't it really a pike or a lance at that point? Well lances are one-handed but while mounted.

I'd like to see the spear and shield combo myself.

Edited by Thulean, 03 October 2012 - 04:45 PM.


#3
LordCrash

LordCrash

    Grand Weresheep of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 1153 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Steam:LordCrash88
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
There's already a discussion about that topic over there: http://forums.obsidi...gs/page__st__20

But for your assumptions: spear+shield were popular in the ancient world and not in the middle ages - quite a big difference in tactics and technology. ;)

Edited by LordCrash, 03 October 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#4
Knott

Knott

    Viking of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 83 posts
  • Location:Norway
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

There's already a discussion about that topic over there: http://forums.obsidi...gs/page__st__20

But for your assumptions: spear+shield were popular in the ancient world and not in the middle ages - quite a big difference in tactics and technology. ;)

Oh.. The OP shouldn't have used the word "Rings"

As for the middle ages, while most spear and shield, were moved to the horseback and Longspears and polearms became increasingly popular, The spear and shield combination for light infantry still prevailed throughout the middle ages. It thrived best in Militias and the city guard/"police" though.

#5
Thulean

Thulean

    Warmaster of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Location:New England
Actually spear and shield was used in shield walls and in personal combat during the middle ages. Swords were expensive and relatively few people had them.The spear remained the dominate weapon until firearms improved during the Renaissance.

' The vikings, for instance, although often portrayed with axe or sword in hand, were armed mostly with spears, as were their Anglo-Saxon, Irish, or continental contemporaries.'

https://en.wikipedia...ean_Middle_Ages ----yeah, I know, Wikipedia...


Eh, that copy-paste quote came out odd.

Edited by Thulean, 03 October 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#6
LordCrash

LordCrash

    Grand Weresheep of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 1153 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Steam:LordCrash88
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Spears were popular for fighting on horseback because of their range, that's also right for the middle ages, I admit. And the city watch also used spears and halberds, but mostly not for real fighting but for deterrence and symbol of their stand.

I also admit that spears were used in the middle ages by poor peasants and landsknechts, but not very often by knights. A spear was a weapon for the poor because you only need a stick and a little iron point. And I think the companions in PE should be no poor peasants who couldn't buy not even a sword. And even if they fight with a spear they would certainly exchange it with a sword from a fallen enemy if they had the chance to do so. ;)

Vikings used spears as well but their greatest appearance in Europe was at the very beginning of the middle ages and not at the end. At the beginning of the middle ages armor techniques weren't as sophisticated as in the transition to the Renaissance and same is true for weapons techniques.

#7
Ieo

Ieo

    White Gazebo of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 1410 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Well... Didn't Obsidian say there's going to be a subrace of Elves that are technologically like in the Stone Age or something? (I forget.) Given different racial technological levels, I don't see why that would preclude spear and shield, maybe as a racial thing...
  • LordCrash likes this

#8
rjshae

rjshae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5055 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Byzantine infantry also used both spear and long sword with shield.
  • el pinko grande likes this

#9
Leferd

Leferd

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2903 posts
  • Location:California Republic
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
The spear and shield combo seems to me to be the arms of a soldier massed as part of a shield wall/phalanx/or other close infantry formation with like-minded armaments.

Different and probably not too practical for an individual adventurer.

#10
rjshae

rjshae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5055 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

The spear and shield combo seems to me to be the arms of a soldier massed as part of a shield wall/phalanx/or other close infantry formation with like-minded armaments.

Different and probably not too practical for an individual adventurer.


A spear will kill you just as dead as a sword. But with a spear you would probably have to rely more on the shield for defense, whereas a sword is useful for turning an attack. Probably why the Romans eventually bested the Greeks (that and sheer numbers).

#11
^Rayne^

^Rayne^

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 48 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I totally agree with the Knott's thread. I hope the developers finally do justice to the spear and shield combo. Now that they're not tied to D&D rules and conventions it would be awesome to see this done right. I would also love the ability to throw a weapon like a spear at an opponent and be able to retrieve the item during or after the fight. High level magical spears could have the ability to magically return to the thrower. This would be a great advancement in this top down tactical game.

#12
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 10612 posts
  • Location:Australia
I seem to remember having spear and shield wielding characters in NWN2. It required the feat Monkey Grip (at least I think that was its name), which enabled you to wield two handed weapons single handed. I can't remember if you could actually dual wield spears though. I might have to reinstall that game again. I miss Storm of Zehir.

#13
Leferd

Leferd

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2903 posts
  • Location:California Republic
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

I seem to remember having spear and shield wielding characters in NWN2. It required the feat Monkey Grip (at least I think that was its name), which enabled you to wield two handed weapons single handed. I can't remember if you could actually dual wield spears though. I might have to reinstall that game again. I miss Storm of Zehir.


I tried that build on NWN2 but the animations they used were those of a slashing weapon. It was a bit...disconcerting. Why would you hack with a spear?

#14
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 10612 posts
  • Location:Australia
Just trying to whack them over the head? You can never knock too much sense into an orc.

#15
^Rayne^

^Rayne^

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 48 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I hope they would put in some cool animations for Spear and Shield styles that really pay homage to the ways these weapons were used in history. It really is a brilliant combat strategy that would be cool to see in the game.

#16
Oerwinde

Oerwinde

    Treacherous Decepticon

  • Members
  • 2912 posts
  • Location:Cybertron, hidden in an extradimensional space in Canada.
  • Xbox Gamertag:Oerwinde (also Playstation Network ID)
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
I actually saw a video of a guy fighting with spear and sword. It was pretty cool. He would use the spear to keep the guy at bay until he was ready to attack or if the guy lowered his guard to knock the spear away. I hadn't thought of a spear as a depensive weapon until then.

#17
Jarmo

Jarmo

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1216 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Spear and a somewhat large shield was what the ordinary soldiers, line infantry,
used until gunpowder weapons made (wooden and leather) shields obsolete.
As long as it was mostly arrows from long range, a big shield would give you the best cover.

A longspear and a very large shield, ie hoplite or spartan style, would require training to be effective,
and so wasn't in use by except higher quality troops, whom would at medieval time mostly fight mounted.

Against cavalry charges long pikes were the best defense, halberds and other 2-handed hacking instruments
were also pretty good at that, and effective against armored opponents, (and useful at closer range). So When
troops of lesser training gave up the shields, they naturally went with one or the other of these.
Especially since both pikes and halberds and other pole arms were also pretty cheap to make.

Edited by Jarmo, 03 October 2012 - 10:48 PM.

  • Elerond likes this

#18
The Sharmat

The Sharmat

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 847 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

If a spear is too big to wield in one hand isn't it really a pike or a lance at that point?

Lances tended to be shorter than the kind of spear you could wield on foot, actually. And pikes could be wielded in one hand if necessary.

#19
Osvir

Osvir

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3799 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, SE
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
But lances are way heavier? I'm having a hard time seeing a character running on foot and fighting with a lance.
Isn't the lance specifically designed for Medieval Games? (Knight vs Knight on horses, for the amusement of the King)

^that is something I would love to see as a mini-game: "Impress the King!" xD

-edit-
additions

Edited by Osvir, 04 October 2012 - 04:31 AM.


#20
general_azure

general_azure

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
I do support one-handed spears as well... the short and fast 2m stabbing version though, not a 5m sarissa for use in a phalanx. Preferably without having to fall back to monkey grip, leave that one for silly things like dual wielding scythes =P





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: spear and shield, weapons, spear, shield

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users