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Azrayel

Systems of Governemnt: Shall We Mix It Up?

Political Structure of the Lands  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like the Palitinate of Dyrwood to be a Singular Government or Split in some way?

    • Singular State
      4
    • Divide (Civil War-esque, perhaps sans War)
      10
    • City States and Loose Alliances
      32
    • Occupied Dyrwood (various nations operating within, terretorial soverignty in question)
      15


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iKnow that all of us are excited to see the various factions and regions being cooked up for us by Obsidian, but as we know they're still forming. I've seen lots of ideas thrown around vaguely and as part of other, larger posts about types of governments (specifically matriarchies or "Amazonian" societies). I thought I might run down a short list and then we could jump off talking about them or other, even more interesting ideas of what system of government various cities\states could use.

 

Theocracy

Rule by religious authority; would essentially adhere to a quasi-Pope or council of theocrats. Would be interesting for a number of reasons: perhaps as a Watcher or due to soem other circumstances you can challenge the potentate's authority so they try to knock you off/butter you up\send you on an impossible quest and try to make sure it's your last.

 

There could also be religious laws about Plane Touched and magick that require all sorts of careful manuvering to avoid a kerfuffle. One might also have some right whereby anyone can challenge someone to a duel if they challenge dogma or somesuch.

 

Matriarchy

Ye olde Drow obviously have this, and if the Lake of Drow Tombs is anything to go by I'd say we may be seeing some of them-- but what about a surface-side, or even human matriarchy? Would give options for gender-specific quest related possibilities, and reverse the normal casual sexism a'gainst "girl-'ventureres."

 

Maybe only women are citizens and you get into some legal kerfuffle that requires your party's women (possibly including yourself) to try and clear the names of the men who've all been arrested because they've been framed or due to prejudice. Would be an interesting altParty moment, like in KotOR II when you return to Drexl for the Ondoron Civil War shtick but with perhaps more dialogue and a good bit longer.

 

Oligarchy

Oligarchies are not rare, just rarely done representatively as I'd like them-- that is to say, many disparate plots and manuverings towards various goals. You'd have to pull favor for each of them to get them to OK some sort of agreement you had to strong arm them into, like in DA:O at the Kingsmoot-whateverthefluck-- saving the guy's kid and finding the documents and such won them over t'you. Should also be mutually exclusive people who want you on one side or t'other, and the two different players have different benefits that come with cooperation.

 

 

 

Any other ideas for systems of government? Also, in the "Free Palitinate" do you hope to see City States or a singular at least slightly cohesive government? Would the idea of an occupied Dyrwood by imperialists in some places like port cities be interesting to you, or would that fall too much into the lines of "and there are rebels and an evil empire now which do you choose" tropes?

Edited by Azrayel

CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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Magocracies make sense for fantasy to such a degree that I'm surprised they're not more common except when depicted as evil. Theocracies should have some significant prevalence as well for the same reason.

 

With magical power, these groups should be running around enlisting armies and enforcing their own laws.

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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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Magocracies make sense for fantasy to such a degree that I'm surprised they're not more common except when depicted as evil. Theocracies should have some significant prevalence as well for the same reason.

 

With magical power, these groups should be running around enlisting armies and enforcing their own laws.

 

True; they would also probably try to control who could be a mage\the training thereof (at least some of them), so it would be another Mage License situation.

 

If you've read Wheel of Time there's a matriarchical mageocracatic order that controls almost all magic users.


CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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I want a technocratic government somewhere but I doubt it will happen. It's where scholars, scientists, physicians, etc. are in charge of governing the country. However I can settle with a "magocracy" because it's close enough.

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Seeing Rome's style of gov't would be awesome, most likely overly complicated for a game but I'll still throw it out there. Their structure has always fascinated me. People always seem to think they had the senate and that was it but it was so much more.

 

Basically in ancient rome at the very top they had the 2 consuls, 1 militartary and civilian and had complete power. Then they had the Senate and a peoples assembly underneath them. A consules term would only be a year and then there would be a new one, generally from the ranks of the senate. In times of need (famine/war/etc) they would appoint a Dictator who would come in to solve the problems and this could be just about anyone. The dictator would only be in power while the problem still existed but would have absolute power. There are stores of farmers being risen to dictator to solve certain problems. In relation to the dictator and consuls it went very smoothly as in Roman society there was a very strong sense of duty. This worked until someone declared himself dictator for life (guy named Cesar).

 

There was also more of what we would call the judicial branch of government in the forms of magistrates.

 

In reality it was a lot more complicated with quite a few different roles but if you took it back to its bones it could be done. 2 heads of state, 1 "dictator" risen above all to solve a problem, 2 assemblies in the background. Feel free to ignore me though if it sounds overly complicated.

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i leave this to obsidian (a.k.a don't care)


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I want a technocratic government somewhere but I doubt it will happen. It's where scholars, scientists, physicians, etc. are in charge of governing the country. However I can settle with a "magocracy" because it's close enough.

 

A merit based system would be very interesting, because iThink Plato's "Republic" would be fun to visit-- rulers well versed in all subjects, with competent people running everything would seemingly mean high efficiency and low corruption. But remember Plato had and I think a merit based system would have a great interest in maintaining the status quo-- no new or "overly liberal" thoughts because an intellectual revolution in this society means a civil war.

 

Heavy censorship of the arts, overt declarations of incorrectness, place in society based upon quantification of intellect-- something lots of people don't think can be quantified.

 

But what about the positive results? What if this maintained order and kept people alive the best? Would you fight for freedom when it meant more death? Are they really just that much smarter you should let them do what they see fit?

 

In reality it was a lot more complicated with quite a few different roles but if you took it back to its bones it could be done. 2 heads of state, 1 "dictator" risen above all to solve a problem, 2 assemblies in the background. Feel free to ignore me though if it sounds overly complicated.

 

The consul system sounds very interesting and I imagine many interesting scenarios with it: Hero made dictator for long enough to save the day? Or plots of the senate to make sure a favorable civic consul is elected who will trade exclusively with one faction rather than the popular senator who would open to all/trade only with the other?

 

I don't think Obsidian would shy from doing something similar or taking inspiration from, but probably not exactly the same for originality purposes. I don't think it's complex, though: sophisticated describes it better in my opinion.

Edited by Azrayel
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CORSAIR, n. A politician of the seas. ~The Devil's Dictionary

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I'd quite thoroughly bored of magocracies. The ideology behind them is just so tired, and the combination of political power with magical power results in a predictable series of conflicts and politics.

 

A well detailed theocracy would be nice... except as far as I'm aware P:E is going to have Greek-style active, meddling interloper gods, so any theocratic state in a world where the gods are common stage personalities isn't really going to be a true theocracy, but rather just a divine monarchy.

 

I'd like to see monarchies that use atypical succession laws. A kingdom that uses seniority succession - wherein a king's brothers come before his sons in the line of succession - has room for intrigue and politics that would be simultaneously familiar yet also refreshingly unconventional.

 

I'd also like to see a monastic state, like the one rules by the Teutonic Knights. A kingdom where the monarchy was overthrown in a revolution could lead to an interesting military dictatorship if power fell into the hands of a knightly order. Sort of a medieval one-party state, with elements of Roman stratocracy but with knights replacing the role of the legions and the praetorian guard in roman politics.

Edited by Sarog

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I would like to see a few 'dark' and unique governments.

 

I have had a few ideas on this, For example, what if the area is sealed off to outsiders, with rumors of dark things going on. You go in to find out that a cult that worships (insert dark deity, demon, god, lovecraft entity..etc). The has the right to conscript anybody, a lottery happens every few months where somone must give their firstborn as a human sacrifice. When people die they are sent to the necromancers to be brought back as undead soldiers/servants. The top 'nobles' get power and immortilty from the deity. perhaps they get turned to vampires, or undead litches, or just kept young by the deity, etc. The only way nobles gain power is through political or physical assassination which is seen as acceptible since anybody stupid enough to get killed or embarassed desearves to be replaced. So the lower nobles (who are usually the children/descendants of the top nobles) are always trying to kil their parents, and the parents are always trying to kill their children/descendents. Perhaps it looks bad, but perhaps it has a trade off, like every citizen has jobs with decent pay, so nobody goes hungry, the nobles do protect the people, and thanks to the dark deity, everyone is unusually very healthy.

 

Another could be a small society of intelects like the show eureka, where brains, tolerance, etc are more important than physical activity, race, sex, etc. Since it is a fantasy setting, this could be a combination of theocracy/technocracy. Of course the downside of this could be that they have a "for the greater good" type of world view. War is breaking out by the evil empire? Create a manhatten type device that will destroy all of them, perhaps it is a plague that is tied to their genetic code if it is a different species, however it would kill all that race, not just them. Or perhaps is really is a bomb, it will kill the empire, along with millions of inocent people in the blast, however the world view is the price is acceptible if it stops the war and saves lives in the long run). Perhaps their solution to criminal behavior is a magic/medical technique to alter their personality into a productive citizen (a magical labotomy), perhaps they view citizens who are not high in inteligence inferior and it is ok to draft them into experiments and/or have the right to take body parts in important magical/medical discovery. What about those who think the races are not advanced enough and experiment in altering/enhacing their bodies to new higher forms through magical/technical ways. Perhaps they are the nobles, those who create new scientific/magical progress for the betterment of society, regardless of the cost.

 

Then you have the merchant societies (look at the US), where it isn't run by nobles, but by money and wealth. In this society, financial progress is the most important, drugs, slaves, prostitutes, gambling..etc. Might look a lot like the mafia.

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I'd quite thoroughly bored of magocracies. The ideology behind them is just so tired, and the combination of political power with magical power results in a predictable series of conflicts and politics.

 

A well detailed theocracy would be nice... except as far as I'm aware P:E is going to have Greek-style active, meddling interloper gods, so any theocratic state in a world where the gods are common stage personalities isn't really going to be a true theocracy, but rather just a divine monarchy.

 

I'd like to see monarchies that use atypical succession laws. A kingdom that uses seniority succession - wherein a king's brothers come before his sons in the line of succession - has room for intrigue and politics that would be simultaneously familiar yet also refreshingly unconventional.

 

I'd also like to see a monastic state, like the one rules by the Teutonic Knights. A kingdom where the monarchy was overthrown in a revolution could lead to an interesting military dictatorship if power fell into the hands of a knightly order. Sort of a medieval one-party state, with elements of Roman stratocracy but with knights replacing the role of the legions and the praetorian guard in roman politics.

 

What games had magocrogracies? I know there have been games that have had theocrocies. I personally would not mind a magocrociey.

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I'm hoping to see at least one Utilitarian country or civilization of some sort.


Do you like hardcore realistic survival simulations? Take a gander at this.

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What games had magocrogracies? I know there have been games that have had theocrocies. I personally would not mind a magocrociey.

 

cRPGs? Not that many. And the ones that do have magocracies in their lore don't deal with them that explicitly.

 

I was talking more from the perspective of fantasy literature, fantasy campaign settings for tabletop games, and the broader genre of high fantasy. In general I find them to be predictable and repetitive, focusing overmuch on the novelty of a ruling class of mages and not really bothering to explore other facets of society which might be changed in a nation where a select group of people with superpowers ruled by virtue of wielding exclusive power. If I encounter one more magocracy where different colleges of magic vie for power and a forbidden school of dark magic plots to seize control of the mage government, my eyes might roll for a solid week.

 

My boredom and familiarity with them is personal though, granted. Not saying they are intrinsically uninteresting, just them I am bored of them.

Edited by Sarog

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As long as the culture changes are taken into account and investigated, I'll be happy with any sort of governments. I want to see what would happen to everyday people living everyday lives if say they were ruled by a council of farmers that governed based on the shifting of weather patterns or something just as unusual.

 

I do wonder how the gods will come into this as well. It was mentioned that they are both definitely there and that they might try and confuse mystical subjects. I wonder how that will affect governing patterns.

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It's kind of funny that the Palatinate (not Palitinate, look at the map) is a region in the middle of Germany which is a part of the German federal state Rhineland-Palatinate. Historically the (Electoral) Palatinate was a state of the Holy Roman Empire and was ruled by the Prince-Elector of the Palatinate who was among the other German princes one of the most powerful rulers in the Holy Roman Empire in the late Middle Ages after the Golden Bull of 1356 and who was also allowed to elect the Emporer. Some of you might know the capital of this historical state: Heidelberg ;)

 

It's quite interesting that Obisidan chose this name for one of the great regions of Project Eternity because the political situation in the Holy Roman Empire between the late Middle Age and at the end of the Renessaise was a very complex matter with shifting powers between the Emporer, his prince-electors and the lower nobles and the clerical nobility and some very destructive and brutal religious struggles and wars (Thirty years' war) all over Europe after the Reformation in the 16. century. Perhaps Obsidian chose that name randomly or for other reasons that I haven't thought of yet but I suppose it could be a hint of the social and political situation in that region (with a fantasy background as well for sure).

 

Here some wikipedia links for people who are interested in history:

http://en.wikipedia...._the_Palatinate

http://en.wikipedia....ly_Roman_Empire

http://en.wikipedia....en_Bull_of_1356

http://en.wikipedia...._Years'_War

Edited by LordCrash

35167v4.jpg

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