Jump to content
Infinitron

Level scaling - don't scale individual enemies, scale ENCOUNTERS

Recommended Posts

Yes, New Vegas did also use level scaling actually. Obsidian just did a better job with it. Check the link.

 

http://forums.obsidi...60#entry1194163

Interesting :)

 

At least I could make basic assumptions about the respective enemies "deadliness".


“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No level scaling, at all. That's how EVERY game should be done. Level scaling just doesn't make sense, no matter how it is implemented

If you spent a month of in-game time going around doing stuff and neglecting the bandit camp we were talking a few post above, it doesn't seem to far-fetched to me if said camp expanded or the bandits got new members.

Clearly if all the bandits only became stronger to match your level for no apparent reason, that would make no sense at all.

That isn't enough for me. Lets say that in a certain area I receive a quest from the King (voiced by Gilbert Gottfried of course ^^) to take care of the bandit threat in a certain area. After I wipe out the first camp, the other bandit camps should reinforce themselves by adding higher level enemies. A scout of the King could then cross my path telling me that the bandits are reinforcing (in order to improve story telling and immersion).

 

That is level scaling done right... as long as it isn't used too often.

Hm, well that's not actually level scaling, but more like interactive environment.

I was merely talking about what happen to monsters in an area when you level up in another.

What you are talking about is simply a more structured quest.

Instead of having:

  • King tasks you with killing the bandits
  • Go to camp 1 and kill all bandits
  • Go to camp 2 and kill all bandits
  • Go to camp 3 and kill all bandits
  • Go back to the King for the reward.

you would have:

  • King tasks you with killing the bandits
  • Go to camp 1 and kill all bandits
  • Camp 2 disbands and the bandits seeks refuge in the rundown alleys of the city
  • Camp 3 gather part of the camp 2 bandits that didn't flee in the city and grow stronger

You can choose:

  • A) To look for the bandits that took refuge in the city, thus allowing camp 3 to grow even stronger
  • A2) Destroy camp 3
  • B) Or to destroy camp 3 but allowing the bandits in the city to hide themselves preventing you to find them

Then returning to the king:

  • A) Full reward from the king
  • B) Lower reward/standing/reputation

 

But this is not level scaling, is just a better thought and implemented quest :yes:

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, depends on how they do it. I'm not too fond of the idea, myself - mooks just magically getting tougher despite everything else in the situation being equal. But if they do it with a cap based on the 'zone' it wouldn't be that ridiculous.

I don't get why its weird to think other people or even monsters in this world are doing things when we aren't around. If we can wander around and get stronger, why can't they? Again, within set limits. Basically just enough to make up for the difference in the amount of side questing someone has done.

Edited by ogrezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know where this topic came from, but I don't expect to use level scaling much, if at all, in PE.

Thank god! :dancing:

 

Now we have to go and beat up Feargus for making us worry so much! lol. Just kidding. :)

Edited by dlux

:closed:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know where this topic came from, but I don't expect to use level scaling much, if at all, in PE.

Possibly Feargus Urquhart, definitely whoever posts comments under the "creator" account on Kickstarter said there was going to be level scaling dependent on which order three territories were entered. On this news I'll see if I can double my pledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And there was much rejoicing. <3

 

rejoicing.gif


Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!

"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Level scale all player races and bosses, leave the rest. That way you can still feel increasingly powerful as you level up and keep everything from getting too easy. No lv 52 wolves or rats.


Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind a little scaling in terms of area-confined scaling. FNV was fine/hardly noticeable, as already mentioned. I'd find that acceptable. That said ....

 

I don't know where this topic came from, but I don't expect to use level scaling much, if at all, in PE.

I love you.

  • Like 1

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No level scaling, at all. That's how EVERY game should be done. Level scaling just doesn't make sense, no matter how it is implemented

If you spent a month of in-game time going around doing stuff and neglecting the bandit camp we were talking a few post above, it doesn't seem to far-fetched to me if said camp expanded or the bandits got new members.

Clearly if all the bandits only became stronger to match your level for no apparent reason, that would make no sense at all.

That isn't enough for me. Lets say that in a certain area I receive a quest from the King (voiced by Gilbert Gottfried of course ^^) to take care of the bandit threat in a certain area. After I wipe out the first camp, the other bandit camps should reinforce themselves by adding higher level enemies. A scout of the King could then cross my path telling me that the bandits are reinforcing (in order to improve story telling and immersion).

 

That is level scaling done right... as long as it isn't used too often.

Hm, well that's not actually level scaling, but more like interactive environment.

I was merely talking about what happen to monsters in an area when you level up in another.

What you are talking about is simply a more structured quest.

Instead of having:

  • King tasks you with killing the bandits
  • Go to camp 1 and kill all bandits
  • Go to camp 2 and kill all bandits
  • Go to camp 3 and kill all bandits
  • Go back to the King for the reward.

you would have:

  • King tasks you with killing the bandits
  • Go to camp 1 and kill all bandits
  • Camp 2 disbands and the bandits seeks refuge in the rundown alleys of the city
  • Camp 3 gather part of the camp 2 bandits that didn't flee in the city and grow stronger

You can choose:

  • A) To look for the bandits that took refuge in the city, thus allowing camp 3 to grow even stronger
  • A2) Destroy camp 3
  • B) Or to destroy camp 3 but allowing the bandits in the city to hide themselves preventing you to find them

Then returning to the king:

  • A) Full reward from the king
  • B) Lower reward/standing/reputation

But this is not level scaling, is just a better thought and implemented quest :yes:

 

True. The world reacts and changes because of your decisions and doings. But it does include a type of level scaling that actually improves a game. :)


:closed:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great!Considering this and the fact that the cooldowns doesn't sound as annoying as I thought(though I still don't get how they'll deal with the 'stand around after battle and wait for cooldowns') there are some p.good news today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind a little scaling in terms of area-confined scaling. FNV was fine/hardly noticeable, as already mentioned. I'd find that acceptable. That said ....

 

I don't know where this topic came from, but I don't expect to use level scaling much, if at all, in PE.

I love you.

 

Back away, he is mine! ALL MINE!

 

Now seriously, you rock Josh! But you guys really should make an update or something, I still don't like some of the cooldown stuff, though I hope you get to do it well enough.

Edited by Elthosian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know where this topic came from, but I don't expect to use level scaling much, if at all, in PE.

It's hard to browse the Kickstarter comment pages but probably, it's the quote below.

More info, as Feargus jumped back on the KS Comments page for a couple hours:

*snip*

Q: Will you do the level/power of the creatures scaled? Im really worried about that, I'm playing a new "RPG" (aka hack and slash adventure game) and I hate how the NPCs are harder everytime. Same guys, just more power. I mean, Im a kind of demigod or something, then, the vulgar thief of the town spank me. Thats annoying! Please, say "no level scaling!"

A: We are going to use a number of different systems. Some creatures will be fixed based upon where they are in the world. Some will scale and then be fixed based upon where you go in the world first. Why we do it that way is so we can have the world be non-linear in places. For instance, if you can goto three adventure areas in any order you want, we have to scale them to make sure that they all remain challenging when you get to the second and third ones.

 

[Edit]BTW, totally off topic but, to anyone responsible for the board application, could you make a "show developer posts" option? I definitely cannot read all the posts, especially when quite many of them appear to be getting repetitive. Going to the designers' profiles and choosing show posts can be an alternative but it feels less convenient.[Edit]

Edited by Wombat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Sawyer. As I said, don't take anything as a fact if it isn't clarified.

Edited by C2B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

J.E. Sawyer, you brought much needed clarity to a jumble of speculation. Now we can lower this beaten horse into the murky waters of Bael Marsh.

*Phew*

Edited by Apex of the Obsidian Order

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phew... minimal level scaling would be preferable. As long as there are viable alternatives to some of the major battles such as sneaking away, dialog options to resolve conflicts peacefully etc., I see no good reason to AVOID level scaling whilst still allowing for a flexible. non-linear exploration of the areas in PE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right.

 

So now that we have a confirmation that, after all, it's "if at all"... what about the apologists that all of sudden had started liking level scaling, but "smartly implemented"? Are you sad?

 

I asked a developer what was exactly level scaled in F:NV. He said only the critical path was and that the side locations (the majority of the game) were not scaled to the player's level at all. Ineed, I noticed that only the assassins being sent to kill you were scaled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So now that we have a confirmation that, after all, it's "if at all"... what about the apologists that all of sudden had started liking level scaling, but "smartly implemented"? Are you sad?

No. :)

 

My opinion is that level-scaling can be done smartly and doesn't always completely fubar a game.

 

I do not need it to be present, I'm indifferent about it. If they can pull it off without any level scaling, fine! If they choose to implement it somewhere for playability's sake, also fine.

 

It's hard to please everyone with their design decisions, but so far, I think Obsidian is doing a really good job. No need to bitch and moan just yet.

Edited by Hagen

When in deadly danger

When beset by doubt

Run in little circles

Wave your arms and shout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...