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[Merged] Cooldown Thread

cooldowns vancian mana exhaustion resting magic improvements discussion spells cooldown

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#241
ogrezilla

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In addition to the cooldown problem I'm also concerned about the lack of rounds. This seems to push RTwP more towards true RT, but it also seems to make it less likely that an auto-pause feature will be implemented. Without autopause IE games would have lost a great deal of strategic feel. That feature was very important to my enjoyment of all of the IE games.

maybe I'm missing something, but how would this change the autopause feature at all?


Well how would they decide when to engage pause without a 6 second or some x second long round or turn? It seems like they'd almost have to invent something that works the same as a round or turn in order to automatically engage pause in a fair manner for both your party and the enemy. All of that was handled automatically in the IE games.


when one of your characters is ready for a new command, the game pauses.

#242
metiman

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Hmm. I suppose so. I wonder if they plan to implement something like that.

#243
Jaesun

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Matt Barton is interviewing Josh, so we may have some more info form that interview on cooldowns™.

#244
ogrezilla

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Hmm. I suppose so. I wonder if they plan to implement something like that.

I hope so. I would love to have the option to set it by character too. The old games had quite a few autopause options for things like health threshholds and stuff, so it seems like something they should include.

They mentioned that you would be able to queue up actions I know. I hope they don't use that as an excuse to get rid of autopausing.

#245
andreisiadi

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The moderator closed my thread and told me to post in a thread with a loaded question for a title. So here it is.

Why cooldowns ?

I've read your statements. I've heard your answers. They mean nothing. You're avoiding the truth with vague arguments that mean nothing.

SO WHY ? I WANT TO KNOW WHY.

You said you want to make a classic game. We want to play a classic game. So why give us Dragon Age Reloaded ? Be honest, forget the market speech and just tell us why.

If you said you wanted to make a Dragon Age clone, then no publisher would have turned you down. So why come to us ? Perhaps you are tired of getting screwed over royalties by publishers and you want your own Dragon Age Ip so only you get the royalties. In other words, it was never about reviving the classic games or passion or whatever marketing lies you threw at us. It was always about the money.

Thanks a lot Obsidian !
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#246
Ieo

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In addition to the cooldown problem I'm also concerned about the lack of rounds. This seems to push RTwP more towards true RT, but it also seems to make it less likely that an auto-pause feature will be implemented. Without autopause IE games would have lost a great deal of strategic feel. That feature was very important to my enjoyment of all of the IE games.

maybe I'm missing something, but how would this change the autopause feature at all?


Well how would they decide when to engage pause without a 6 second or some x second long round or turn? It seems like they'd almost have to invent something that works the same as a round or turn in order to automatically engage pause in a fair manner for both your party and the enemy. All of that was handled automatically in the IE games.


when one of your characters is ready for a new command, the game pauses.


Metiman, you need to read/listen to the Reddit Q&A:

What aspect of cRPGs missing from modern games do you most want to recapture with Project Eternity?

(Tim Cain) Answer: I can answer that in one word: parties. I like playing cRPG's that allow the player to control big parties of characters, and by control, I mean you can pick the actions of each party member if you want. We will have lots of pause conditions in our combat, and if you want to have the game pause whenever a party member can perform a new action, you can do that. Most modern games only let you control one character, or if they give you a party, you only control one member of that group. In this game, I want to control all of them.



#247
ogrezilla

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The moderator closed my thread and told me to post in a thread with a loaded question for a title. So here it is.

Why cooldowns ?

I've read your statements. I've heard your answers. They mean nothing. You're avoiding the truth with vague arguments that mean nothing.

SO WHY ? I WANT TO KNOW WHY.

You said you want to make a classic game. We want to play a classic game. So why give us Dragon Age Reloaded ? Be honest, forget the market speech and just tell us why.

If you said you wanted to make a Dragon Age clone, then no publisher would have turned you down. So why come to us ? Perhaps you are tired of getting screwed over royalties by publishers and you want your own Dragon Age Ip so only you get the royalties. In other words, it was never about reviving the classic games or passion or whatever marketing lies you threw at us. It was always about the money.

Thanks a lot Obsidian !

same answer I gave in the other thread.

cooldowns don't automatically mean dragon age. if you read the comments they made, you know they plan to make the combat mimic the general spirit of "# of casts per day" style mechanics using cooldowns in place of rest. They also value spell choice and preparation.

So why would they chose it? They can potentially create a system that feels like the classic system but without the rest system to screw with it. Thus, you may actually end up having to strategically choose spells AND think about when you use them. The old rest system completely negated that second part.

TLDR: They think they can do better
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#248
J.E. Sawyer

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my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.
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#249
ogrezilla

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I like that guy.
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#250
TrashMan

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A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.
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#251
Ieo

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I like that guy.


Brevity is the soul of bitchslap.

#252
J.E. Sawyer

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A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.

Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting.
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#253
metiman

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Oh yeah. I forgot that Tim said that. Well that's one less thing to worry about at least.

#254
ogrezilla

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I really like this guy.

Edited by ogrezilla, 02 October 2012 - 11:58 AM.

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#255
ogrezilla

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Oh yeah. I forgot that Tim said that. Well that's one less thing to worry about at least.

I had forgotten he said it too. I hadn't really thought about it until you brought it up, but I was sort of worried for that minute in there too

Edited by ogrezilla, 02 October 2012 - 12:00 PM.


#256
mindx2

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Not a fan of cooldowns at all! There are so many other ways to implement vanacian magic with restricted resting. They could have let resting occur anywhere on an easy setting and limit it on harder settings Make certain areas No-resting, have ranger skills to allow resting in certain enviroments, etc. This just seems like a modern Big Boy publisher "streamlining" move to me. :banghead: Just feels like a lazy and easy way out. Hope whatever you guys have planned is better than ANY cooldown system I've seen. This news really is a downer.

Edited by mindx2, 02 October 2012 - 12:04 PM.

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#257
Wirdjos

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I like that guy.


He seems to like you too. How many times has he quoted you now?

#258
andreisiadi

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Mimicking - Why do we need to mimic ?
Rest - easier ways to fix, see KOTC
Strategically choose spells - you mean all spells available at all time, with a minor cooldown for switching suites in the middle of combat
bla bla bla - you mean game will be extremely easy and I'll have to play the hardcore mode like in F:NV just so I don't fall asleep.
meta-gaming through reloading is not strategy - you mean the game will be so easy you will never have to reload and all spells available at al times and in every battle.

Classic Infinity engine game indeed.

Do you people actually fall for the market speech ?
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#259
metiman

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Who or what are you replying to?

#260
Hypevosa

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my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.



A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.

Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting.


So it's essentially just cooldown timers which are longer depending on spell strength, and go down outside of battle rather than in it?

also, thanks for jumping in, it's nice when developers see a concern such as this and will come in to quell the fears.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: cooldowns, vancian, mana, exhaustion, resting, magic, improvements, discussion, spells, cooldown

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