Epic level item survey!

[Ieo]

Why not something that you particularly fancy? I think the problem is that no one knows what exactly what gear slots/weapons/artifacts will be in the game at the moment.

 

True, it's way early, but I'd like to get started with my idea/lore. On one hand I'd like to make something folks will want to use, yet not have it be the most popular mainstream choice.

 

I also am a fan of the negative effect idea to balance the positives. However, one has to step lightly here. I don't want folks to use it situationally, either-- I want it to be a primary item they feel they can use for a significant period of time.

 

Well, true, if something is too situational--and our inventory is limited--then it'd be annoying to keep around "just in case" (although 90% of the potions in BG fell under that category, I feel). The "negative" may not be truly negative either--in the Otiluke's Resilient Sphere example I gave, it's really a "true neutral" kind of application, quite different from a "benefit/curse" balance.

[Chaos Theory]

And I had forgotten it's the way we're heading... so far 29 epic items *sigh*

 

We can always hope the game will feature a museum running an exhibition of 29 epic items behind an unbreakable, adamantium-reinforced glass.

 

I really liked that museum idea-- that was PS:T, right? I think it was cuz I grabbed the red hammer... Anyway, that's one way around flooding the market with epic items-- force tough choices. Complete a quest, have one of the many Gods offer you a reward:

 

God: "You must choose, but choose wisely as you will not get them all..."

 

PC: "Awesome 6-tentacled God thing, what are my choices?"

 

God: "The Boots of Incontinence" (lightning/thunder, dramatic music)

 

PC: "Um... Next?"

 

God: "The Golden Cricket" (whooshing wind, eerie music)

 

PC: "Oo! What does that do?"

 

God: "You may call upon the beast thrice to assist you in battle, but alas, it then returns to the Netherworld whence it came!"

 

PC: "What else ya got?"

 

God: "Your choice is made! I present to you Ellsa's Cot! Use it wisely..." (poof, God disappears)

[Ink Blot]

I really liked that museum idea-- that was PS:T, right? I think it was cuz I grabbed the red hammer... Anyway, that's one way around flooding the market with epic items-- force tough choices. Complete a quest, have one of the many Gods offer you a reward:

 

God: "You must choose, but choose wisely as you will not get them all..."

 

PC: "Awesome 6-tentacled God thing, what are my choices?"

 

God: "The Boots of Incontinence" (lightning/thunder, dramatic music)

 

PC: "Um... Next?"

 

God: "The Golden Cricket" (whooshing wind, eerie music)

 

PC: "Oo! What does that do?"

 

God: "You may call upon the beast thrice to assist you in battle, but alas, it then returns to the Netherworld whence it came!"

 

PC: "What else ya got?"

 

God: "Your choice is made! I present to you Ellsa's Cot! Use it wisely..." (poof, God disappears)

 

lol - not bad.

 

I voted, after thinking about it and seeing that epic items are going to be in the game anyway. I chose an accessory (that way it has the best chance of being useful to any class), and want to see some cool lore attached to it. I'd still like to see it with some kind of drawback and/or limited uses.

[Grimlorn]

Everyone loves swords. Just make it a sword. And give it some kind of effect that procs 20-25% of the time. Like fire damage, or blindness, or something.

[Jarmo]

I'd prefer if the epic weapons were a) rare and b) leaps and bounds above normal stuff,

and talking of that, c) normal stuff not pretending to be epic by having a mile long backstory.

 

When I find The One Holy Excalibur from an undermountain tomb where the once and future king eternally rests,

it's pretty awful if it's actually just another +3 sword with different graphics and I end up pawning it because my

only heavy warrior actually prefers axes (and has a +2 one already with which he's more effective).

 

And I particularly dislike things like The Bloody Ornament: The ring was forged a millenia ago in the land of blah, blah, blah blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.... and gives +1 deflection bonus.

 

Don't bother making a backstory for something that has a totally trivial glamour tossed in one morning by a hungover apprentice.

 

And if the other weapons are, say max +5 (if we go by the +something, which I hope won't be the case),

I'd like the said Excalibur to be something like +10, so you'd be a total fool to get rid of it.

 

Except, the king of the country would like to purchase it for 500K, and be absolutely furious if you decide to keep his ancestral blade,

and some other dude would like to have it too and try to assassinate you for it.

 

--

And yeah, I said weapons, sorta giving away my preference.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Jarmo

[Monte Carlo]

Hello to the OP and firstly can I say how brilliant it is that you pledged so much. your generosity is inspirational. Kudos to you, sir (or madam).

 

Magic items... Hmmm. I am a twinkie magic items whore.

 

My favourites have a balance between bad-assery / restrictions and modest cross-class versatility.

 

What do I mean by that?

 

Bad-Assery: Well, obviously, I want the item to make a tangible, visceral difference when I use it. Weapons are the obvious example. I don't mind if the powa is modal or not, just that when I want the item to shine, it does. It also needs to (a) look cool and (b) have a decent name. Blackrazor is a cool name. The Hand of Vecna is a cool name.

 

Restrictions: With licence, comes restraint. Powaz should be tempered by restrictions. Maybe stats or class. Maybe enemy types. Maybe it has an unpredictable but unwelcome effect on the person using it. Maybe the item is sentient and with it's own agenda. Maybe it is addictive and won't let you unequip it (my preciousssssss).

 

Cross-Class Versatility: In the BG games I loved items that gave me a powa that usually only other classes enjoyed. A truly epic item might let my fighter pick pockets, or my mage occasionally be badass at melee. Maybe my rogue can heal. You know, give a useful power that allows me to re-think my core NPC strategy perhaps.

 

Anyhow, hope these are food for thought.

 

Cheers

MC

[Homo_erectus]

I think "epic" items are stupid and I would prefer not to see them in the game unless they play a direct role in the core story, are only usable for a limited time or in limited circumstances, or have some sort of seriously negative consequence to use so you only can use them very rarely.

 

Gear based "progression" is fun when the game is built entirely around it but those types of games typically give you little to no freedom to develop your characters the way you want to. I would much prefer that character progression through stats and abilities is the core of progression and gear progression is very simple, non-epic, and exists merely to support the character.

 

I really don't want to see "epic" weapons with spinning doodads and dripping particle effects and pulsing neon crap all over it.

[Monte Carlo]

I think "epic" items are stupid and I would prefer not to see them in the game unless they play a direct role in the core story, are only usable for a limited time or in limited circumstances, or have some sort of seriously negative consequence to use so you only can use them very rarely.

 

Gear based "progression" is fun when the game is built entirely around it but those types of games typically give you little to no freedom to develop your characters the way you want to. I would much prefer that character progression through stats and abilities is the core of progression and gear progression is very simple, non-epic, and exists merely to support the character.

 

I really don't want to see "epic" weapons with spinning doodads and dripping particle effects and pulsing neon crap all over it.

 

So, really, you don't want items consistent with the precursor games that allegedly inspire P:E?

[Homo_erectus]

I think "epic" items are stupid and I would prefer not to see them in the game unless they play a direct role in the core story, are only usable for a limited time or in limited circumstances, or have some sort of seriously negative consequence to use so you only can use them very rarely.

 

Gear based "progression" is fun when the game is built entirely around it but those types of games typically give you little to no freedom to develop your characters the way you want to. I would much prefer that character progression through stats and abilities is the core of progression and gear progression is very simple, non-epic, and exists merely to support the character.

 

I really don't want to see "epic" weapons with spinning doodads and dripping particle effects and pulsing neon crap all over it.

 

So, really, you don't want items consistent with the precursor games that allegedly inspire P:E?

 

Inspiration can be as much a cause to do things differently as to do things similarly. I certainly hope Obsidian is going to inspect the mechanics and development decisions of their inspiration games and then apply the things they've learned over the years and not just blindly ape those games.

 

I don't want gear progression to be the entire, or major, focus of character development.

 

Gear should be secondary. It's a means to an end. Yet in many current games gear progression is practically the only meaningful way to develop your characters. It's the end itself.

 

The games listed as inspiration all had strong character development at their core. Gear was important but not the focus of the games. I'm most familiar with Arcanum and while it had unique weapons character development didn't primarily revolve around gathering "epic" loot.

[Monte Carlo]

OK, so you are most familiar with Arcanum. I'm not, really.

 

In many of the IE games there were iconic items that harked back to the games that inspired them. To win them, you (usually) had to beat an equally iconic and devilishly tough opponent. The reward / risk ratio was fair. The item was not game breaking (ironically, the most game-breaking item in BG2, the shield of balduran, you could buy) but powerful.

 

Such items are very important to those of us who appreciate what went before. Others want to play some sort of worthy text adventure that satisfies their faux-hipster gaming credentials, based on games that don't actually represent what this project is advertised to be about.

 

I am not saying you are one of them, and acknowledge that Obz are trying to satisfy a diverse bunch of gamers. But people who continually post "No uber items" and "less fighting please" strike me as harking back to a very recent past, and don't seem to dig where this project appears to be coming from.

[Ieo]

But people who continually post "No uber items" and "less fighting please" strike me as harking back to a very recent past, and don't seem to dig where this project appears to be coming from.

 

Well, Planescape: Torment did have some epic items, but really not all that many, and it certainly didn't have a lot of (mandatory) fighting. Considering the striking number of PS:T fans hanging around here, I'd argue such a request isn't really a very recent thing.

[Homo_erectus]

Ah I see.

 

I've played Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum each a few times. I admit I bought TOEE the day it came out but I've only put maybe 20 hours into it. I also enjoyed Lionheart a great deal although in the end I found it disappointing as the story moved further and further into the background and the game turned into a very bad diablo clone. Man the music was FANTASTIC though. I just missed the others. I *love* isometric rpgs and I'm a huge fan of Troika, Black Isle and Obsidian. I even enjoyed DS3 )

 

Still, I'm not looking for a carbon copy of these games, more a modern game with the sensibilities of those older games. I'm sorely disappointed that they are going with a class based system though. And with the prevalence of "phat loot" style gear in modern games, I worry that it might slip in, as I fear classes are a concession to the more modern audience.

 

I guess we all have favorite elements of these games and I bet none of us enjoy exactly the same elements. I love the character building, role playing and stories that these games offer. I honestly find the combat to be fairly dull quite often though. It's usually too hard in the beginning and too easy in the end. Things like epic items are a big part of that, which is why I would prefer not to see them.

 

Also, though, epic is relative. If almost all the weapons in the game just do damage and don't modify character stats or have effects, a weapon that adds a few hit points and offers a really occasional proc is comparatively epic and I wouldn't have a problem with that sort of "epic".

Edited October 1, 2012 by Homo_erectus

[Vandoon]

A good backstory on the item is great and makes the world but having something unusual would be special. Negative traits, unique abilities anything that varies the +x widget of damaging or ring of better resistance.

[Chaos Theory]

 

Cross-Class Versatility: In the BG games I loved items that gave me a powa that usually only other classes enjoyed. A truly epic item might let my fighter pick pockets, or my mage occasionally be badass at melee. Maybe my rogue can heal. You know, give a useful power that allows me to re-think my core NPC strategy perhaps.

 

 

This aspect is my quandary right now. With the help of this poll I've narrowed my "item" down to 3 things currently, but without more info from the devs as to what exactly we'll be allowed to do in addition to info about the game itself, that's about as far as I can go right now. If I were to make an item that gives abilities to other classes, it probably has to be an item that multiple classes have the ability to use.

 

I've always been obsessed with heavy armor in RPGs, and certainly it's one of the items I'm considering. If we're told that our epic item can be a full armor set (all pieces together would be needed to instill the bonus), then without hesitation I'll likely be designing a set of heavy armor. Unfortunately that would limit its use to fighter-types, unless of course our new world here allows everyone to wear anything they want, regardless of class. If they continue to stick with the D&D-like trends I'm seeing, probably only about 1/3rd of PCs could ever use it in that case, so it'd be relegated to companions (assuming we'll have the option to outfit them completely).

 

If I were to cater to the widest possible audience, I'd likely be limited to a bauble of some kind or a ring or an amulet. While I'm open to that idea, I would have to have a significant amount of design leeway to make it worth my while. Something tells me the artist/designers who assist us with our items won't want to muck around with a unique, complex widget for all 100 of us who ultimately get to input our ideas into this game.

[Zz'gashi]

I really don't like the term "epic level item" because it implies randomly generated loot with a different colored name. In a story driven RPG, any item that significant should have a back story and reason for appearing where it does, usually with a quest associated to it.

[Ieo]

This aspect is my quandary right now. With the help of this poll I've narrowed my "item" down to 3 things currently, but without more info from the devs as to what exactly we'll be allowed to do in addition to info about the game itself, that's about as far as I can go right now. If I were to make an item that gives abilities to other classes, it probably has to be an item that multiple classes have the ability to use.

 

I've always been obsessed with heavy armor in RPGs, and certainly it's one of the items I'm considering. If we're told that our epic item can be a full armor set (all pieces together would be needed to instill the bonus), then without hesitation I'll likely be designing a set of heavy armor. Unfortunately that would limit its use to fighter-types, unless of course our new world here allows everyone to wear anything they want, regardless of class. If they continue to stick with the D&D-like trends I'm seeing, probably only about 1/3rd of PCs could ever use it in that case, so it'd be relegated to companions (assuming we'll have the option to outfit them completely).

 

If I were to cater to the widest possible audience, I'd likely be limited to a bauble of some kind or a ring or an amulet. While I'm open to that idea, I would have to have a significant amount of design leeway to make it worth my while. Something tells me the artist/designers who assist us with our items won't want to muck around with a unique, complex widget for all 100 of us who ultimately get to input our ideas into this game.

 

I'll be frank. It's early; we still have little information on item mechanics and such for PE or how player-input content would be included into quests, if at all.

 

You're the one who backed at the $1000 level. This epic item input is a reward and recognition for that, so you needn't worry about catering to as many players as possible (there's a lot). If you personally favor heavy armour, by all means go for it. I think the main takeaway in relation to PE and its homage to the IE games is that mechanics do matter, but story/lore add significant flavor to everything to make things meaningful for a lot of people, and given the target audience, that's something to keep in mind.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Yeah, what he said. In the BG games i loved having high level stuff to give to my NPCs.