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Update #10: Characteriztion with Chris Avellone

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I would like to think that no one at least here on the forums would want or expect their ego to be stroked by their companions.

 

About the only concession I'd want for game play purposes is to have the option of not allowing them to leave the party if they dislike you, although this might require a certain minimum intimidation skill (or equivalent).

 

I wouldn't concede that. I loved this about Arcanum and think it's a fantastic design decision. Ego stroking, not so much.

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I don't think the ego thing means companions who think the PC is the bee's knees all the time. It seems to be more about how the companions will always impress upon the PC the importance of PC's quest and of his/her role in that quest, and show that, whether they love or hate him/her, the world to a large extent gravitates around them.

 

Obviously, there are people who wouldn't like that either, and want the world not to give any kind of crap about the player. I like that too. But I'm just trying to clarify what it means (in my opinion).

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I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium. I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

I would like to see the devs answering to this one comment, you make a very good point there!

 

I think what he meant was the NPCs would react to your specific actions and behaviour, making you feel "unique" or "special". They could either be supporting you or very obviously against your very actions.

 

I've been replaying BG II recently and Aerie comes to mind, she obviously looks up to you very much and yet never panders to you the player. Even if you never pursue a romance with her, it was a good experience.

 

Welp that's my two cents, anyway

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I'm sorry if I'm a little erratic. I'm a little diminished right now, but I would say that ego stroking isn't so bad. It might not be the best term for us as end users, but it's realistic from the perspective of the design team. It's a payoff. Even if the player is *not* the center of *everything,* it makes sense that loyal companions make him feel that way. Also, emotional rewards sometimes provide more incentive than hard core in game rewards. If I'm playing the die hard goodie two shooes or the die hard bad assed character, then the npcs reinforcing my decisions can sometimes be more fulfilling to me as a character than the in-game loot and xp rewards.

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Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

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Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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Hi Chris welcome to your 40's.

 

Beaker would make an epic JNPC. Really, he would.


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

Ya I gotta agree with this. I much prefer characters being sarcastic with me constantly or making snide remarks. Much more fun.

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Ya I gotta agree with this. I much prefer characters being sarcastic with me constantly or making snide remarks. Much more fun.

I agree with this, but then that *is* the payoff. I think having some nod to your character is good, but sometimes the payoff is to say 'you're so awesome' and sometimes the payoff is to say "you only *think* you're so awesome.' ...BUt the point is that neither one require balancing for more xp or beteer loot. The payoff is simply a nod to the character you provide for your PC.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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Nice update. Happy birthday, Chris. Don't worry, you don't look a day over 400. :p

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

I think you've missed the point.

 

Ego-stroking (the player, not the character!) doesn't have to be positive. Morte lied to you because all his guilt, all his non-life was bound to yours and he wanted to stay with you. Ignus nearly worshipped you previously, thus being so easily manipulated into attacking you, the master who didn't love his best student as mach as the latter wanted. Vhalor dedicated both his life and afterlife to judging you. All that is ego-stroking at its best, it's what makes you the main character: you are important to them, and they show it. No one said anything about this affection having to be love and general cheering.

 

This is better shown on Annah's example, I believe. She contempted you, and what did it turn into? Right. All strong emotions blend together somewhat on a certain level. But would that be ego-stroking the player without the romance? Yup, still would be. 'Cause she contempted you, you personally, and that made you special. I think that's what Chris is talking about.

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you can watch my triumphant procession to Rome

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Will I be the first to point out that OH MY YOUR KEYLEE AND JAYNE FIGURES ARE SO NICE? Well, they are. Happy birthday. :)


you can watch my triumphant procession to Rome

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*New* concept from the update

 

image-163777-full.jpg?1348795914

 

 

Cadegund? Race, faction, character class, or the artist's last name?


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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happy birthday Chris

 

402 waouh !!!

fewwwwwwwwww lonnnnnnnnnnnnng life


.:: Dual Waraxe Only ::

 

.:: Dwarf Power !!! ::.

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I don't understand something , what type chracters in this game ? We will make our characters ? Or only selecting pre-generated or specific like planescape ?

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*New* concept from the update

 

image-163777-full.jpg?1348795914

 

 

Cadegund? Race, faction, character class, or the artist's last name?

 

It's name of the shotgun :)

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Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

image-163154-full.jpg?1348681100

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

I have to say, my favorite party member in NWN 2 was Bishop. Especially because of what happened during the seige.

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

And you owe me (us!) some stomach medicine, or a healing spell!


Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

image-163154-full.jpg?1348681100

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