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[Merged] Combat Friendly Fire

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One of the major differences between Infinity/ToEE games compared to most modern RPGs is that there used to be friendly fire, meaning if you layed down a giant fireball AoE spell you would not only be destroying that army of skeletons but also your NPCs, allies and townsfolk. This also makes the game much more tactical and deeper as players aren't just mindlessly dropping AoE spells. Any word on whether the plan is to have friendly fire? I would definitely expect it unless told otherwise.

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One of the major differences between Infinity/ToEE games compared to most modern RPGs is that there used to be friendly fire, meaning if you layed down a giant fireball AoE spell you would not only be destroying that army of skeletons but also your NPCs, allies and townsfolk. This also makes the game much more tactical and deeper as players aren't just mindlessly dropping AoE spells. Any word on whether the plan is to have friendly fire? I would definitely expect it unless told otherwise.

1. Obviously friendly fire is something we need.

 

2. Dry hair is for squids.

 

Seriously. Jack Deth? Is that a Trancers reference?

Edited by Sylvius the Mad

God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

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If there is, I'd like an option to turn it off. I've never had problems with it (beyond initial experimentation with AoE spells where I inevitably kill my entire party) but I know some people don't want the hassle.

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I don't mind if mages can pick up a skill/talent/perk/whatever which helps in minimizing the collateral damage. Also somewhat more realistic than the "turn on/off in the menu" option.

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Friendly Fire is important, if you don't have it the game gets all arcane howitzer with no real thought. Skilful use of cloudkills and fireballs mitigated against excessive cheeze in BG1/2. A bit.


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Friendly Fire should be in, maybe even extended to some firearms. I'm also not against the possibility of some skills/perks that lower friendly fire damage.

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2. Dry hair is for squids.

 

Seriously. Jack Deth? Is that a Trancers reference?

 

Yes

 

With a Torgo avatar, no less!

 

And yes to friendly fire.

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One of the major differences between Infinity/ToEE games compared to most modern RPGs is that there used to be friendly fire, meaning if you layed down a giant fireball AoE spell you would not only be destroying that army of skeletons but also your NPCs, allies and townsfolk. This also makes the game much more tactical and deeper as players aren't just mindlessly dropping AoE spells. Any word on whether the plan is to have friendly fire? I would definitely expect it unless told otherwise.

 

Yeah I like the concept of friendly fire, it adds to the whole importance of strategy.

 

I always use to chuckle at how unrealistic DA1&2 were, I would be surrounded by hoards of darkspawn and I would cast a fireball spell on myself and blow them away but never get hurt.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I too am a fan of the friendly fire mechanic, but I have no problem with there being the option to disable it (different strokes for different folks and all that).

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One of the major differences between Infinity/ToEE games compared to most modern RPGs is that there used to be friendly fire, meaning if you layed down a giant fireball AoE spell you would not only be destroying that army of skeletons but also your NPCs, allies and townsfolk.

 

The problem is it should also destroy houses and set the trees on fire. ;)

 

Jokes aside, hurting bystanders is always problematic, because it involves implementing people's reaction to your actions during the battle. Will they flee ? Or if you i.e. hurt their children will they attack you ? What kind of character is powerful enough to cause only fear and not anger ? And what about our opponents ? Friendly fire should be double-edged sword IMO.

 

If it's supposed to be simple friendly fire like BG or Fallout, than I would prefer option to turn it off. You know, I still remember this WTF moment when people went hostile and tried hand-to-hand combat with my character in power-armor. :]

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in all the games i've played, even if the fights were proving to be frustratingly hard, i've never turned the difficulty below the point of friendly fire.

 

so, yes, FF PLZ.

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One of the major differences between Infinity/ToEE games compared to most modern RPGs is that there used to be friendly fire, meaning if you layed down a giant fireball AoE spell you would not only be destroying that army of skeletons but also your NPCs, allies and townsfolk.

 

 

If it's supposed to be simple friendly fire like BG or Fallout, than I would prefer option to turn it off. You know, I still remember this WTF moment when people went hostile and tried hand-to-hand combat with my character in power-armor. :]

 

Lol, that sounded like quite a fun experience. Fallout is another RPG I haven't played it but I want to.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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If there is, I'd like an option to turn it off. I've never had problems with it (beyond initial experimentation with AoE spells where I inevitably kill my entire party) but I know some people don't want the hassle.

 

I really can't agree with this. I understand where it's coming from but an AoE spell without friendly fire risks is dramatically more powerful than one with them. I don't think there should be a menu option to increase weapon damage by a factor of 5 and nor do I think there should be a menu option to increase AoE spells efficiency by a similar amount. By all means have AoE spells which do dramatically reduced damage that target only enemies but don't leave such an important aspect of game balance to a menu option.

 

On topic I really loved this in Baldurs Gate games, I wouldn't say it was essential but hopefully there will be other considerations with similar depth if not.

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Also somewhat more realistic than the "turn on/off in the menu" option.

 

What would be wrong with having an option? Doesn't fun > realism ?

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Toggle would be more than enough, just like in NWN2 (I always played at hardcore difficulty, with friendly fire).


"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance" - Wing Commander IV

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It should be in, yes.

It should only be turned off on the easiest difficulty (the "don't play, simply enjoy the story" one).


you can watch my triumphant procession to Rome

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i thought blue-on-blue was default


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I really can't agree with this. I understand where it's coming from but an AoE spell without friendly fire risks is dramatically more powerful than one with them. I don't think there should be a menu option to increase weapon damage by a factor of 5 and nor do I think there should be a menu option to increase AoE spells efficiency by a similar amount. By all means have AoE spells which do dramatically reduced damage that target only enemies but don't leave such an important aspect of game balance to a menu option.

 

I think we shouldn't exclude by design people, who are here mostly for non-combat experience (story, social skills etc.).

 

This

 

It should be in, yes.

It should only be turned off on the easiest difficulty (the "don't play, simply enjoy the story" one).

 

is probably the best solution: 'Tell Me a Story', 'Give Me a Challenge' and ' Give me Deus Ex' kind of settings.

 

 

Lol, that sounded like quite a fun experience. Fallout is another RPG I haven't played it but I want to.

It is fun, but not when you should feel guilty, because you've missed and killed a kid ... and instead you burst out laughing at half of a village trying to kill your lvl 20 chr with fists and knives.

Yes, you should definitely try Fallouts, try GoG.com.

Edited by Seldon

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If your spells don't hurt your own party, it will take all the fun out of having companions with hight evasion ability like rogues and monks in IWD2... ;(

 

Regarding a toggle, I disagree. Friendly fire should not just be a "hardcore" option - the normal first-time-playthrough mode should have it and be balanced for it. If the game is properly balanced for it it won't add any overall difficulty (if that's what worries you), but it will add lots of tactical depth and fun.

 

See here for a general explanation of why I dislike the "People have different opinions/preferences? Just make it and option!" knee-jerk reaction.

Edited by anek

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Yes, being able to cast a fireball anywhere without worrying about the consequences is really cheezy. It's okay for an arcade-style game, but not for one with mature themes. Then again I don't like twitch games where you can accidently whack a friendly; it should be the skill of the protagonist that matters, not your skill with the mouse.

:cat:


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I love FF, but sometimes the companion AI is just not up to it, like in NWN2 before Tony_K's enchancements. A separete toggle for it would be nice.


SODOFF Steam group.

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Yes, being able to cast a fireball anywhere without worrying about the consequences is really cheezy. It's okay for an arcade-style game, but not for one with mature themes. Then again I don't like twitch games where you can accidently whack a friendly; it should be the skill of the protagonist that matters, not your skill with the mouse.

:cat:

with pause that shouldn't ever be an issue.

 

that said, this is definitely something that could easily be turned off in the menu. It should be defaulted on but the easy mode should allow it to be turned off.

Edited by ogrezilla

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Friendly fire should be one of those difficulty toggles that were suggested in another thread. Some like it, others don't, let the player choose.

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