Darthturk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Got nothing to do with xenophobia, Its just a waste of resources The Statement that resources spent in making the game more accesible to people from other countries are wasted is Xenophobic and offesive. Specially when a big ammount of backers are europeans. I can handle myself fine, but many players could really use subtitles, like when you go see a movie that's not on your native language, for example. Im from denmark, thats in europe. My main language is Danish, and yet i still think it would be better to spend money on something that benefits everyone, instead of a small group of the player base. Again, if it doesnt cost much its not a problem to me, but incase it does i would rather it was spend on everyone. Edited September 25, 2012 by Darthturk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 yet i still think it would be better to spend money on something that benefits everyone everybody profits from a "wealthy" obsidian. your point is? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthturk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 yet i still think it would be better to spend money on something that benefits everyone everybody profits from a "wealthy" obsidian. your point is? Ok lets say it costs 200k to translate, and it brings in 100k, then thats a very small playerbase and a waste, for everyone who can speak english. Then again, if it only costs 10k, then even if it only brings in 5k i dont care cause its not alot. Now i dont know the numbers so i dunno if its profitable, but frankly how do people expect to learn english, if they just refuse to touch anything thats english? I learned english through TV shows and gaming, they can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Ok lets say it costs 200k to translate, and it brings in 100k, then thats a very small playerbase and a waste, for everyone who can speak english. the prime reason for localization ain't to rise pledges* but to cater for a larger audience after release. the game will do horrible in the long run if they just support english... is that really so very difficult to figure out?! * that's why the translations are only one thing amongst others within a huge update, containing also a whole region, faction, quests, items and npcs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckmann Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Bleh, meh and blargh. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempavor Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 how do people expect to learn english, if they just refuse to touch anything thats english? I learned english through TV shows and gaming, they can too. Me too, but trust me: there are people that when they play would simply have fun, and not be worried about learning English. 1 Bandit of the Obsidian Orderanimaliacustici.tumblr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthturk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Ok lets say it costs 200k to translate, and it brings in 100k, then thats a very small playerbase and a waste, for everyone who can speak english. the prime reason for localization ain't to rise pledges* but to cater for a larger audience after release. the game will do horrible in the long run if they just support english... is that really so very difficult to figure out?! * that's why the translations are only one thing amongst others within a huge update, containing also a whole region, faction, quests, items and npcs. Why would it do horribly? Im fairly certain the amount of people who cant play in english isnt as huge as you make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthturk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 how do people expect to learn english, if they just refuse to touch anything thats english? I learned english through TV shows and gaming, they can too. Me too, but trust me: there are people that when they play would simply have fun, and not be worried about learning English. Well, just goes to show dubbing on kids shows is bad. Subtitles all the way, teach them from they are young. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septembervirgin Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 New $110 Digital Only Tier Thanks to popular demand, we are adding a new digital tier at $110 that has early beta access to the game, thanks in the credits, a postcard thanking you for your pledge (sent physically) along with all the other digital benefits of the $140 Tier. Even if you're offering everything I could get at $140 for $110, I'll still give you guys $140 because I can't afford it and the monsters under my bed eat my brain at night. However you should straighten out the offers on your Kickstarter webpage, there are contradictions between what you're saying, what you say on your Kickstarter sidebar, and what the main list of rewards state. "This is what most people do not understand about Colbert and Silverman. They only mock fictional celebrities, celebrities who destroy their selfhood to unify with the wants of the people, celebrities who are transfixed by the evil hungers of the public. Feed us a Gomorrah built up of luminous dreams, we beg. Here it is, they say, and it looks like your steaming brains." " If you've read Hart's Hope, Neveryona, Infinity Concerto, Tales of the Flat Earth, you've pretty much played Dragon Age." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempavor Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Why would it do horribly? Im fairly certain the amount of people who cant play in english isnt as huge as you make it out to be. I think that the real issue is not about how many people can't play in english, but how many people do not want to play in English. Bandit of the Obsidian Orderanimaliacustici.tumblr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Although the localisation is awesome news, as is MCA writing a novella, I think there needs to be a stretch goal with a bit more 'OMG' in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Why would it do horribly? Im fairly certain the amount of people who cant play in english isnt as huge as you make it out to be. it's not about being able to but feeling comfortable buying a classic, text heavy crpg. now imagine 100k lost sales, each in germany, france, spain, poland, italy and russia. at an average rate of around 30$ that makes 18mio wasted. does it sound like a clever move? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The Poles and Russians are crazy about CRPGs. There needs to be some consideration to localisation costs versus potential profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althernai Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 it's not about being able to but feeling comfortable buying a classic, text heavy crpg. now imagine 100k lost sales, each in germany, france, spain, poland, italy and russia. at an average rate of around 30$ that makes 18mio wasted. does it sound like a clever move? I think Obsidian will have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams if this game makes $18M total (including North America and all English-speaking countries). It would be a return on investment of about a factor of 5-10 (depending on how the Kickstarter ultimately does). Unfortunately, I find this extremely unlikely and it's even more unlikely that they'll get anywhere near that much from players who buy the game solely because it was translated into the six languages you mention above. Look at the Kickstarter stats. Kicktraq considers the beginning of each "day" to be at 6PM Pacific Time (i.e. the time of this forum). According to the Kickstarter email, the announcement went out at 6:25PM so it more or less coincides with the beginning of the day labeled 9-25. The previous day (9-24) saw an influx of $47,945. The amount collected on 9-25 until now is $19,119. Of course, there are more than 10 hours left and it always picks up towards the end of the Kicktraq "day" so it should be at rougly the same level, but there is absolutely no evidence of the promised translation convincing massive numbers of people to contribute. That said, I still think the translation is a good idea. It's text-only so they don't have to pay four times as much for the voice-acting and it will allow people who are not comfortable with English to enjoy the game in their own language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthturk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Why would it do horribly? Im fairly certain the amount of people who cant play in english isnt as huge as you make it out to be. it's not about being able to but feeling comfortable buying a classic, text heavy crpg. now imagine 100k lost sales, each in germany, france, spain, poland, italy and russia. at an average rate of around 30$ that makes 18mio wasted. does it sound like a clever move? You got those numbers from anywhere? Cause otherwise it could easily be 1k persons in one country, 3k in another, then matybe 50k in one country. Ofc it could be worth it, but without actual numbers we dont know. Could just spend all the pledge on making the game bigger and better for everyone who pledges, then spend the first sales to translate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 This is why I asked a question about the business side of this project. What were sales like in these countries of original Obz / Bio / BIS titles? What is the CRPG market like in those territories now? Does that data justify extra localisation and / or marketing? These are business decisions, fundamentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark One Avoozl Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 You're right, the golden middle in such questions is always the best option. Aye. They also "translated" Doomhammer to Schicksalshammer. Which if we translate it literally back to English is Fatehammer. Terrible. what a bull****... you know what's the cancer of translations? inconsistent and bad translations! imagine that the npc from the concept art is named Edair Whiterun and in the german version he's called Edair Weißlauf, which would be a proper translation. now they simply have to stay with this name, given that the npc will appear within the sequels, and NOBODY would be offended or even notice this. btw it's completely optional! if you don't like the translation, simply switch to english -.- I'd be offended because Weißlauf sounds entirely terrible. I'd also be offended if I went the next time to a comic store and the comics all of a sudden read Fledermausmann, Wunderfrau und Spinnenmann. Let's not forget the X-Männer und die Grüne Laterne. the localizations are there to make the game more accessible and this correlates with the financial success of project eternity. if you could discard your selfishness for just a second you would notice it. Yes. But you don't need to translate the names of characters unless there is really some super special hidden meaning behind the name that by god no one would get unless it was translated. You didn't get my point.Many people understand English and so they don't "need" a different translation. Somehow this often means they hate translations (because so many things are lost in translation and stuff) and don't accept that there are people who don't speak English. On the other hand these people have no problem if e.g. a Japanese game gets translated, because they don't speak Japanese. So all these guys saying "Only the original version is the true version! Death to all translations!" are nearly always hypocrites. I'd be entirely offended if they started to translate the names of the Japanese characters. I'm entirely offended when they simply change Japanese chracter names into Western ones (thank god the mostly only do that in the US and Germany was spared from such bull****). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Obsidian will have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams if this game makes $18M total (including North America and all English-speaking countries). It would be a return on investment of about a factor of 5-10 18mio is just a sales number of around 600k... which should be easily doable considering steam, gog and 3 different "plattforms" (win, osx and linux). of course valve and cd projekt take their piece for distributing. dunno if all the naysayers are really that short-sighted but it's a substantial fact that if there's no support for native languages the sales numbers will be much lower eventually. and again, it's not about the amount of pledges but the long run of the game... I'd be offended because Weißlauf sounds entirely terrible. I'd also be offended if I went the next time to a comic store and the comics all of a sudden read Fledermausmann, Wunderfrau und Spinnenmann. Let's not forget the X-Männer und die Grüne Laterne. wenn für dich weißlauf ausreicht, um eine übersetzung schrecklich zu finden, dann mangelt es dir ganz einfach an deutschem wortverständnis. überhaupt den kontext einer mittelalterlichen kulisse, in dem project eternity angesiedelt ist, mit den eigennamen neuzeitlicher comics zu vergleichen, zeugt von extremer engstirnigkeit. wenn, dann komm' wenigstens mit argumenten und nicht mit iwelchem scheiß, der bloß deinen vorlieben entsprungen ist. Edited September 25, 2012 by Semper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.E. Sawyer Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It's funny you should mention German; I've had German translation teams in the past be extremely aggressive about translating both common (e.g. Brigit) and fictional names into different versions. I didn't really (and still don't) understand why. 1 twitter tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 This is why I asked a question about the business side of this project. What were sales like in these countries of original Obz / Bio / BIS titles? What is the CRPG market like in those territories now? Does that data justify extra localisation and / or marketing? These are business decisions, fundamentally. My perception: There's a hefty market in Europe for RPGs, especially Obsidian's, and especially compared to the US. However, a significant percentage of RPG fans are already proficient in English and, importantly, would rather play the game in English. This is due to two factors: given the choice, original is better, and translations are often terrible. I'd say that translating an RPG is a worthy goal but, in the case of a Kickstarter, it should be one of the last stretch goals. Unless Obsidian hires me to do the translation to Portuguese. In that case translating the game should be the very first goal. Portuguese is one of the most spoken languages in the world, and has more speakers, than German or French, for instance, which already have been chosen for translation. Also, can I interest you in these fine leather jackets? "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Forgive my ignorance, Pids, but can Spanish speakers understand a Portuguese language version and vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.E. Sawyer Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Edair looks a bit bland and uninteresting. Edair is a man who does not want to draw attention to himself. I wanted his design (specifically) to be subdued. 9 twitter tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) It's funny you should mention German; I've had German translation teams in the past be extremely aggressive about translating both common (e.g. Brigit) and fictional names into different versions. I didn't really (and still don't) understand why. German's quite versatile. And depending on how well someone has an understanding of it (and what they are translating), this can end up great. FF IX also does this and it's an exception where I genuinly prefer the german version. I'm not a fan of literal translations in general, though. Edited September 25, 2012 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Forgive my ignorance, Pids, but can Spanish speakers understand a Portuguese language version and vice versa? No, not really. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) It's funny you should mention German; I've had German translation teams in the past be extremely aggressive about translating both common (e.g. Brigit) and fictional names into different versions. I didn't really (and still don't) understand why. it's because you need a versatile vocabulary and very good knowledge of german to translate names while keeping their meaning and the phonetic in balance. and a lot of germans do think that english is superior to their language. that's why they want their names sounding cool instead of a medieval touch which would fit the setting. I'm not a fan of literal translations in general, though. nobody is. you can't translate literally without damaging the language you are translating to - that's the balance and what makes a good localization. Edited September 25, 2012 by Semper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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