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Tauron

"A good-ol' witch-huntin' thread" J.E.Sawyer

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I was following Tropes vs Woman thread for a while, topic kinda derailed to witch hunting trials in middle ages, and all that it may imply. I hope title is not misleading as Sawyer mentioned a thread just for that derail...this is not exactly what he had in mind, but does touch subject of "wich-huntin"

 

It was already talked about some of taboo subjects that players would like to experience in game or have game reflect on subjects of sexualism, lvl of depicted violence etc. But I was thinking to have more mundane aproach to it. Something skill based, that PC can learn and actively use which is disliked beyond frowned upon. Forbbiden, depending on a region in the world, you might be attacked on sight, if seen performing these 'unsanctioned' activities.

 

Obviously magic comes to mind, or some forbbiden school of magic. But it has to be usefull, powerfull, worth the effort as risk of persuing it should also reflect that. It doesnt just have to be magic. There was mention of witch hunters, mage hunters. If there is mage faction, town or territory controled by mages, they might frown on use of guns, as it was mentioned they work well against some magical defences.

 

So, would you like to see something like this in PE? What exact aproach and how complex would you like it to see it in game?

 

Edit: (sorry for my bad english and at times loss of coherent thought in writing, it is not my strong side)

Edited by Tauron

magic021.jpg

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I guess I could go for something like this ... just as long as it didn't overlap too much with Bioware's take on magic and mages in Dragon Age.

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Witch hunts remind me too much of Dragon Age 2, to be honest, but if they do it I'm sure they can avoid the annoyances of that game's plot.

 

Skills which are forbidden are interesting, though, if it's actually implemented like regular crime systems in the game, but in given regions. An interesting point might be *why* exactly these skills are forbidden. Perhaps it's because the Powers That Be want to control it as a resource, and unauthorized use is fatal. Perhaps it's because of fear of what it might do. Perhaps it might be of some feuds between the gods. And actually a more interesting part might be participating in an actual witch hunt, with all the irrationalities it contains. It's very easy to do wrong, though. Are mage hunters only mage hunters because it's profitable to do so, e.g. mages are rich, and therefore it's nice to have a tool you can rob mages with, or is it because mages are things that should be hunted?


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(will also handle pitchforks and other sharp things)

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I mentioned in the thread on classes that a possible mage class would be a Soul Mage. Someone able to dominate and control the souls of those around them and drain them for life replenishment. Something like this would be obviously viewed as evil and repugnant since it violates the sanctity of the individual. Having the possibility of such an evil class would make role-playing an evil character a bit more fitting. Something like this would also tie into Necromancy pretty well since they would be placing stolen and dominated souls into the corpses of others.

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I think being 'attacked on sight' seems a little too farcry2, I think it breaks the suspension of disbelief, but I agree that having something like a distrust of spell casters, or if a player wears the emblem of a particular god or whatever and that gets a negative reaction... what I mean to say is that adding in prejudices and the like deffinitely helps deepen a game.

 

I loved that magic was outlawed in Athkatla in BG2, for instance, touches like that made it feel more real to me.


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I think things like this, necromancy, witch hunting, distrust of magic should not be an overwhelming feature of the game.

They should be limited to certain regions maybe causing tension between neighbors, distrust of certain races in a region. It is natural for people to feel distrust of what is strange to them while other people may want to explore it and learn about it. Some tension can add to the game play. Depends on how it is done too much can be annoying and even get boring. I am sure in a game where we have been promised diversity there will be some.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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This might be slightly OT (but still about using "forbidden arts") but, if they decide to go with some kind of thing where certain magics are considered illegal to use in public, then I hope they do a hell of a lot better job of making it realistic than Dragon Age 2 did.

 

In DA2, blood magic was talked about endlessly as being wrong, and that mages who are seen practicing it are in big, big trouble. Yet I had blood mages in my party, and even played as one when I went through the game as a mage, and nothing ever happened to us when we'd unleash blood magic right in the middle of town. There wasn't even so much as a mention of it.

 

So basically, if the lore and the dialogue discuss something as being illegal/immoral/grounds for getting tossed in jail or hung, then make sure the actual game play follows suit.

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As long as it is consistant within the world. Biowares approach of mage hate and blood mages whilst I stood there as a mage practicing blood magic with everyone watching was abysmal. I could have been invisible for all that happened.

 

If something is forbidden I want a reaction, I want to be attacked, imprisoned, exiled. Something.

 

Bloodbending was a nice touch in Avatar, something truly frowned upon and hilariously powerful at times. Keeping to the setting, something that tampers with the soul or reincarnation process could be quite taboo. I can see necromancy or something similar being a big no no. Pulling a soul from the cycle and implanting it into a body? Sounds pretty taboo to me ;)


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Witch hunts aren't interesting in most games because they have a very clear bad side (ignorant bigots) and a good side (misunderstud wise woman or what have you).

That quite frankly makes them terrible boring and predicatable. Ans I'm bloody sick of them.

 

If they go for a choose-your-side scenario I don't want to be faced with a bland good vs. evil - I want grey vs grey.

 

Skyrim (for all the things it defenetly got wrong) made both sides of the civil war seem legit. Even if the the Stormcloaks seem racist at some points. But then again the Empire seemed like it was the dominions lapdog just as often. New Vegas didn't do it as good - the NCR was clearly the good side and Legion as evil as could be.

 

Simply put I don't want to hunt down magic users as they are fun to play and absolutly useful, even vitaly important.

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Witch hunting, my favourite pastime!

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"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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Witch hunts aren't interesting in most games because they have a very clear bad side (ignorant bigots) and a good side (misunderstud wise woman or what have you).

That quite frankly makes them terrible boring and predicatable. Ans I'm bloody sick of them.

 

If they go for a choose-your-side scenario I don't want to be faced with a bland good vs. evil - I want grey vs grey.

 

Skyrim (for all the things it defenetly got wrong) made both sides of the civil war seem legit. Even if the the Stormcloaks seem racist at some points. But then again the Empire seemed like it was the dominions lapdog just as often. New Vegas didn't do it as good - the NCR was clearly the good side and Legion as evil as could be.

 

Simply put I don't want to hunt down magic users as they are fun to play and absolutly useful, even vitaly important.

 

I agree in most games witch hunters and inquistion types are shown as doing it purly becase they are corrupted and evil rather than making it becase of the fact that they are scared. In real life this fear dosent makes much sense but in world full of real magic , look at the Warhammer universe inqusition is corrupted but their have a very good reason to hunt witches ( they can bring a bloodthirster to wreck chaos on world)

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Skills which are forbidden are interesting, though, if it's actually implemented like regular crime systems in the game, but in given regions. An interesting point might be *why* exactly these skills are forbidden. Perhaps it's because the Powers That Be want to control it as a resource, and unauthorized use is fatal. Perhaps it's because of fear of what it might do. Perhaps it might be of some feuds between the gods.

 

Magic is most obvious exampel. But it can be much more. Having feuding religions ( feuds between gods as you said) I would also love to see better legal system that deals with rogues/thiefs. Maybe there are regions where autorites will ask you to remove all weapons while present, etc. It is beyond magics.

 

I loved that magic was outlawed in Athkatla in BG2, for instance, touches like that made it feel more real to me.

 

Me too, good exemple btw!

 

So basically, if the lore and the dialogue discuss something as being illegal/immoral/grounds for getting tossed in jail or hung, then make sure the actual game play follows suit.

 

It is nothing new, but I would like it to be implemented with more sense, as it should be more belivable.

 

As long as it is consistant within the world. Biowares approach of mage hate and blood mages whilst I stood there as a mage practicing blood magic with everyone watching was abysmal. I could have been invisible for all that happened.

 

If something is forbidden I want a reaction, I want to be attacked, imprisoned, exiled. Something.

 

Bloodbending was a nice touch in Avatar, something truly frowned upon and hilariously powerful at times. Keeping to the setting, something that tampers with the soul or reincarnation process could be quite taboo. I can see necromancy or something similar being a big no no. Pulling a soul from the cycle and implanting it into a body? Sounds pretty taboo to me ;)

 

Bloodbending acually made a lot of sense and fighting enemies much more easier than manipulating water way they did. Why all that fancy swinging and what not whn you can make your enemies brains pop with little to no effort. I enjoyed the show, but targeted audiance were kids and teens. Makes you think how would it progress if it had more mature rating.

 

 

I am not envying devs, they have to add meaningfull complexity to world and than make gameplay that fits that lore. Not easy at all, but would love to see them try and make it right or at least make it better than previous games.

Edited by Tauron

magic021.jpg

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Skills which are forbidden are interesting, though, if it's actually implemented like regular crime systems in the game, but in given regions. An interesting point might be *why* exactly these skills are forbidden.

 

Or, it could be a situation like in feudal Japan where it was considered unclean to handle a corpse and if you do it in public you've marked yourself as a member of the unclean underclass (or an unclean foreigner) so people will treat you like dirt. Or, maybe if you demonstrate skill in picking locks, the local constabulary will be highly suspicious of you as a potential criminal. Or, if you're fastidious about cleanliness, the Inquisition will think you're a Jew.

 

There are a lot of these things you can do without falling back on some "Magik R Evul" trope.


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If you appeal to "realism" about a video game feature, you are wrong. Go back and try again.

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Skills which are forbidden are interesting, though, if it's actually implemented like regular crime systems in the game, but in given regions. An interesting point might be *why* exactly these skills are forbidden.

 

Or, it could be a situation like in feudal Japan where it was considered unclean to handle a corpse and if you do it in public you've marked yourself as a member of the unclean underclass (or an unclean foreigner) so people will treat you like dirt. Or, maybe if you demonstrate skill in picking locks, the local constabulary will be highly suspicious of you as a potential criminal. Or, if you're fastidious about cleanliness, the Inquisition will think you're a Jew.

 

There are a lot of these things you can do without falling back on some "Magik R Evul" trope.

 

yes indeed


magic021.jpg

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