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TrashMan

Rarity of magic items?

Rarity of magic items?  

284 members have voted

  1. 1. How rare do you want magic items to be?

    • Rare. Not everoyne im my party should have a magic weapon or armor.
      223
    • Abdundant. I want magic weapons and armor for everyone!
      53
    • GIMME MHAOR! Magic underware! A magic ring for each finger! I want magic detectors to explode whem I'm near.
      8


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I voted rare, but only because the poll option specifically said "armor and weapons". Had it reflected the actual poll question, I would have voted for the second option (abundant).

 

The permanently enchanted stuff should be special. They should drop from unique and formidable named foes only, like bosses and their hoards/chests, or enemy parties, or high level assassins who have been hired by powerful people to come and kill you. On the other hand, limited use/magical consumables should be common.... the norm even. There should NOT be a shortage of potions, scrolls, and wands etc. by mid game.

 

Of course, this game is going to have a crafting mechanic, so I'm not sure how relevant this discusion even is. If it's like most games that have crafting, the rarity or non rarity of magic weapons and armor is up to the player.

Edited by Stun

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In BG1 magic was rare.

... no. Magic and magical items were not rare in BG1, there were loads of crazy wizards (looooads) and other magical items. After you completed about 20-25% of the game you didn't even have anything non magical in your inventory anymore. I know this for sure, I just completed my last playthrough a few months ago.

 

The best items in the game (magical of course) were indeed rare - or even unique.


:closed:

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By TOB I didn't even bother picking them up anymore..

Throne of Bhaal loot dispensing was a travesty. It was almost as if the devs themselves knew it and wanted to make a comentary about it. In Saradush, in the Sewers, there's a Barrel/trash can containing a +4 greatsword (!). LOL That was their message: +4 swords have become meaningless, so we're going to throw them in the trash in the sewers.

 

It got even worse when you were going through the slave pens in Sendai's Enclave. You could literally fill up your bag of holding with all the +3 Hammers and Halberds that Sendais slaves dropped. Ridiculous.

Edited by Stun

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Heh, i'd like to be that kind of slave :) (alive one of course ^_^)

Powerful magical items should have a useage limit, like you can use Girdle of Frost Giant Strength once a day and it can be used 10-15 times.

Or some can backfire like not able to control minions you just summoned from the staff.


Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

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I really don't care as long as I can play the game with or without magic. If the game assumes that I will be using certain items at certain levels then I expect the entire party to have those items. If the game doesn't assume I have certain things at certain levels then having them feels like a bonus.

 

Either way I'm fine. We wind up selling 99%+ of the gear we find, usually for much less than they are worth. If there's no reason to have the cash then there's no sense in collecting gear. If there's decent gear to be found in shops then we will need to be able to afford them which means a lot of useless but magical stuff will populate the leveled lists, NPCs, and monsters.

 

I just recently finished a play through of Icewind Dale II and I was a little upset at the abundance of junk items but there wasn't enough of the stuff I needed to outfit my whole party.

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In BG1 magic was rare.

... no. Magic and magical items were not rare in BG1, there were loads of crazy wizards (looooads) and other magical items. After you completed about 20-25% of the game you didn't even have anything non magical in your inventory anymore. I know this for sure, I just completed my last playthrough a few months ago.

 

The best items in the game (magical of course) were indeed rare - or even unique.

 

That's an exaggeration. Heck, mundane non-magical full plate was useful till the end of the game.

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I just recently finished a play through of Icewind Dale II and I was a little upset at the abundance of junk items but there wasn't enough of the stuff I needed to outfit my whole party.

IWD2 also had another design issue that I don't want to see: The best magic items were in shops. According to the Devs, this was done intentionally to allow people to specifically choose the ideal items for their builds from a list, instead of creating their builds and then hoping and praying that they'd eventually find the "right" items during their long treks through the countless enemy infested dungeons in the game.

 

The result, of course, was that 95% of the game went like this: Kill a group of monsters, loot their bodies, find 10 bullets of piercing, let out a sigh. Move on, Kill the next group of enemies, loot their bodies, find 10 +2 arrows, let out a sigh.... lather, rinse, repeat....over and over and over.....

Edited by Stun

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In BG1 magic was rare.

... no. Magic and magical items were not rare in BG1, there were loads of crazy wizards (looooads) and other magical items. After you completed about 20-25% of the game you didn't even have anything non magical in your inventory anymore. I know this for sure, I just completed my last playthrough a few months ago.

 

The best items in the game (magical of course) were indeed rare - or even unique.

 

That's an exaggeration. Heck, mundane non-magical full plate was useful till the end of the game.

That's because you were what, level 8-9 by the time you finished BG1? In 2nd ed Standard full plate was useful for quite a while. Hell, even in 3rd ed you'd probably be running around in +1 full plate at best because there were much more useful items to blow your cash on. Edited by ravenshrike

"You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it"

 

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Non Magical Full plate was the best armor anyway in Bg1, because you could wear a ring or cloak of protection with it.

Edited by Stun

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"In BG1 magic was rare."

 

No, it wasn't. Special unique magical items were uncommon but magic items were not. And, even special magic items were more common than any pnp game I played.

 

Also, to compare BG1 to BG2 or TOB is silly since the level differences is huge.

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I guess the obvious answer should be : it depends on your progression in the game.

Non magic/garbage item at low levels to epic and abundant in the end game (assuming you end up at very high level of powers, facing massive ennemies).

In BG1 you start wearing rags while ToB is a +5 sword fest, it should not be too suprising.

Edited by corentintilde

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In BG1 magic was rare.

... no. Magic and magical items were not rare in BG1, there were loads of crazy wizards (looooads) and other magical items. After you completed about 20-25% of the game you didn't even have anything non magical in your inventory anymore. I know this for sure, I just completed my last playthrough a few months ago.

 

I completed MY playtrough recently too and I recall distinctly that half of my party had completely mundane armor and weapons.

I dunno if you played wiht mods, or with a walktrough to get every single last item in-game, but BG1 has the smallest number of magical items of all BG games.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

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Also, to compare BG1 to BG2 or TOB is silly since the level differences is huge.

 

What does level have to do with anything?

 

Unless oyu think that being a higher level automaticly means you MUST run into more magical tiems..because..why?

The gods themselves put them in your path?

What does the wrold care what "level" you are?

 

What NOT run into a legendary magical items early on? Why NOT run into completely mundane weapons late game?

 

Waht you propose is exactlx the opposite of good atmosphere - scaling for scalings own sake. Nothing more than ego and greed appeasing.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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What does level have to do with anything?

 

Unless oyu think that being a higher level automaticly means you MUST run into more magical tiems..because..why?

The gods themselves put them in your path?

What does the wrold care what "level" you are?

 

What NOT run into a legendary magical items early on? Why NOT run into completely mundane weapons late game?

 

Waht you propose is exactlx the opposite of good atmosphere - scaling for scalings own sake. Nothing more than ego and greed appeasing.

 

One way of circumventing this mechanically would be to go the Witcher route and have character skill determine most of the combat-related numbers (damage and so on), and have the weapon itself provide only a relatively small part (this could also lead to more diversity in weapons, wherein a main gauche might confer a blocking bonus whereas a rapier adds 10% bleeding damage or whatever). That way, you could have both progression in terms of increased combat power over time and a reasonable game world that doesn't inexplicably throw +14 Greatswords of Infinite Tarrasque Summoning your way once you hit a certain level.

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I would like master crafted items to actually mean something. In most games if it is not magical it is vendor trash.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Weapons don't need to be magic to be worthy anything. The materials used, balance, blade curve - everything is important and making stronger weapons by just adding +1 to it is simply being lazy.

 

What I'd like to see is this - you start with a rusty old weapon, then progress to basic military grade, then special forces (elite guard etc.) tier and then exotic and rare things should come. You should NEVER receive legendary weapons by default, for example as a reward for doing the main quest, or finding it in a random shop. Also, going to a diffrent town shouldn't neccessairly mean all equipment will be better.

 

Lastly - doing more damage should be mostly related to your skill, not just by finding a better sword. Want to be more dangerous with that old sword of yours? Train more, learn new tricks, be more agile and stronger. It shouldn't be that a master swordsman can't kill jack if he doesn't have a pumped up + 15 sword made of god's backhair whatnot. It'd be cool if finding a better sword meant you can strike more frequently and accurately, not neccessairly doing load of more damage just because there's a higher number on the weapon's base damage stat.

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In the IE games Damage *was* mostly related to your skill. Well, your skill and your strength score. A standard Longsword did 1-8 damage. But if you had 18/00 strength, you added +6 damage to this, and then if you had grandmastery in longswords you added another +5.

 

So leaving out critical hits, your max damage with a long sword was 19.

And if that sword was +5 then your max damage would be 24. Not a huge difference.

 

What ends up pushing it over the top, though, is when Devs decide to Throne of Bhaal it, like say, that +5 sword also does 2d6 fire damage and then stuns the victim. Or worse: that sword is a +6 Vorpal Halberd that does 3d6 additional poison damage, and then magically insta-kills on 20% of all hits.

Edited by Stun

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I want the P:E experience to be about my character as defined by the choices, class, race, gender, statistics, and feats/skills that I select. In D&D 3.X terms, I'm perfectly content to have a +1 main weapon (e.g. battle axe) and a smaller +2 back-up (e.g. light mace) weapon when some of the opponents I'm encountering require a +2 or better weapon to bypass their damage resistance. The same goes for special materials to overcome damage resistance--steel main weapon and silvered or cold iron back-up.

 

In short, the experience should focus very heavily upon my character and far less upon the nifty swag my character earns, steals, or crafts over the course of the adventure. Anything else degenerates into an attrocious Monty Haulish arms race to be won by the character with the best Death Stick.


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About the same as in the BG series will be fine. Magic should be about as common in this magic-oriented fantasy setting as technology was during our medieval era.


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I dont think it is question of magic or not.

 

I think weapon diversity is good thing to have - you can call it magic, legendary. The thing i feel is like you should have option to improve your gear. And you should be happy when you find something magical (even if it will be fun but wortless - boots that will prevent you from feeling heat (when you walk on the burning grounds)

 

My idea about best items is - that every class should have something, that will make it similary strong. (that mage is not OP and warrior suck or mage is just a buffer because engame creatures are magic resistant and therefor he just buff warrior that sucked mid game)

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I hope they're very rare, this isn't supposed to feel like Diablo.

It should be possible to improve non-magical items and finding a magical item should be one of those "Oooh!" moments.

I'd also like it if they felt very unique (distinct magical properties).

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I hope magic weapons and armor are rare and unique. Materials should matter. I am curious how the devs will handle the distribution of magical items because there are 59 backers who get to design an epic high level weapon, armor or artifact. "One of the best in the game"... Quite a few epic items I'd say plus all the items Obsidian will design! Maybe they'll all be in a store or something but that'd be a little cruel. But I trust in OE :)

Edited by Forlorn Hope


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Gear should become better with game progression. Whether it is done via cumulative "plus ones" like in DnD style games or by adding material type like in DAO or adding additional adjectives to reflect quality like in M&B, I really couldn't care less. As long as they are easy to compare and names do not become ridiculous.

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