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Rarity of magic items?  

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  1. 1. How rare do you want magic items to be?

    • Rare. Not everoyne im my party should have a magic weapon or armor.
      223
    • Abdundant. I want magic weapons and armor for everyone!
      53
    • GIMME MHAOR! Magic underware! A magic ring for each finger! I want magic detectors to explode whem I'm near.
      8


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Ad. 2) Well if you will get different qualities of weapons (rusted, copper, iron, steel, hardened steel, mastercraft, enchanted, magical, legendary artifact) then I can see your point of having a mastercraft being a good weapon to end up a game with on some of characters.

 

Bad idea. Having too many tiers is stupid.

 

You have to start askign yoursef - why even use weapons from material A if material B is in every way superiro and abdundant enough?

 

stone/bone weaposn were quickyl dropped in favor of bronze.

Bronze weapons dissapeared once Iron weapons came.

Iron weapons were quickly phased out by steel.

 

The more materials nad qualities oyu put, the sillier it becomes.

 

normal, masterwork and special (silver, cold iron?), mythril? No more.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Having too many tiers is stupid.

 

The more materials nad qualities oyu put, the sillier it becomes.

 

normal, masterwork and special (silver, cold iron?), mythril? No more.

 

But different tiers (or types) of masterwork items is reasonable, I think. One type of alloy makes the blade heavier, giving more armor penetration and damage, but resulting in slower attacks. Another technique may make it somewhat more flexible, yet resistant, giving a bonus to parry attempts, at the cost of armor penetration. Et cetera.

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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How rare you want them to be?

 

Personally, I liked the feel of Baldurs Gate 1 the most.

Magic items were rare and special. By the time I reached the game end, I didn't have a magic item in every slot for everyone.

 

It just seemed too silly for me. Almsot like every magic item worth something is gravitating towards you.

You come into town loaded with magic gear, carrying several bag of magical extras. Magic kinda loses it's impact..it's not that magical anymore when you can't take tow step without stubbing your toe on a magic item.

 

When you read fanatasy novels, the characters there usually don't have that many magic items either. Usually one or two signature ones.

 

A good, well-crafted steel sword shoudl serve one well the entire game.

2-3 (no more, it starts getting silly. DA sucked in this regard. In what sensible world would you see bronze, iron, steel and titanium weapons be used at the same time??) different sword materials and qualtiy can give variety (altough the differences would be small) without needing to be magical.

We already have this game. It's called "The legend of Zelda".

 

A sword+1 and better is actually considered to be a magical item. So if you simply call a sword+1 a steel sword instead... does that mean it is not magical then? As you can see, it is only how the devs interpret the items they create. Make everything magical, who cares.

Edited by dlux

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Having too many tiers is stupid.

 

The more materials nad qualities oyu put, the sillier it becomes.

 

normal, masterwork and special (silver, cold iron?), mythril? No more.

 

But different tiers (or types) of masterwork items is reasonable, I think. One type of alloy makes the blade heavier, giving more armor penetration and damage, but resulting in slower attacks. Another technique may make it somewhat more flexible, yet resistant, giving a bonus to parry attempts, at the cost of armor penetration. Et cetera.

 

As long as one material isn't both abdundant and clearly superior....yes. That can work.

 

but for simplicity sake, the number of materials should be kept low.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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I think this really should depend on the scope of the adventure. Are we going to be futzing around with kings and queens, defending their realms from dire threats? Then at that point, my party should be suited out with the best of the best magical equipment. Are we working on our own, with no patrons, nobody to support us, fighting monstrous foes who have no need for enchanted baubles? Then maybe we'll be able to scrape together a single suit of enchanted armor by the end of the game.

 

What I want in this area, like in all areas, is internal sensibility. Kings should be pooping in enchanted bedpans. The fiercest of bandits should cherish his weakly enchanted dagger. The sworn guardians of the Hermit-Sage of Al'Nurath? Each is equipped with a spear, shield, hauberk, and amulet of bear summoning.

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A sword+1 and better is actually considered to be a magical item. So if you simply call a sword+1 a steel sword instead... does that mean it is not magical then? As you can see, it is only how the devs interpret the items they create. Make everything magical, who cares.

 

It makes magic less magical...and cheapens the entire setting. That's why.

Even just naming an item differently can have an impact bigger than you think. Names cary meaning. There are connotation that are unavoidable. How something is presented affec the entire atmosphere. Designing a game is not to be taken lightly.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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I despise the "Christmas tree effect" that a lot of RPGs encourage. You find the shiny magic bauble you want for your fingers and toes, neck and shoulders, do the same for the five other dudes you're rolling with, and suddenly that Excalibur at your side feels a lot more mundane. Inevitably you are swimming in so much magic stuff that each new piece of loot you get is reduced to a GP value and you're left pawning the ancient treasures of the sunken city of Nonesuch to some dirty innkeeper so that you can afford those Boots of Awesome you've noticed while window shopping. Meh.

 

Honestly I'd prefer it if every magic item was unique, and that most of the good ones require you to collect fragments to reforge, like the disassembled weapons in Baldur's Gate. Few things make magic seem more lame to me than scrolling through page after page of This-And-That coming in all its different +1, +2, and +3 varieties.

Edited by Sarog
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A sword+1 and better is actually considered to be a magical item. So if you simply call a sword+1 a steel sword instead... does that mean it is not magical then? As you can see, it is only how the devs interpret the items they create. Make everything magical, who cares.

 

It makes magic less magical...and cheapens the entire setting. That's why.

Even just naming an item differently can have an impact bigger than you think. Names cary meaning. There are connotation that are unavoidable. How something is presented affec the entire atmosphere. Designing a game is not to be taken lightly.

There should of course be non-magical items in the game, like in BG. It improves immersion.

 

But I have no problem with "generic magical items" like a sword+1. The very powerful magical items were extremely rare and even had their own names and history, which was excellent in BG. A "ring of protection +2", for example, was also pretty rare. It was always fun figure out who to give it to. :)

 

Anyway, if that is what you mean, then I totally agree with you.

Edited by dlux

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I think magic should be semi-common, but not too boring. So, I'd tend to question the +1 items. I think everybody in your party should have magic items, even unique magic items with a lot of power, but also that these magic items are differentiated and specialized in a way that you don't have standard items. So, not every party member should have the "Ring of protection + 2". Instead, you may have a fighter with the "ring of bear nature", a wizard with a "ring of fire enhancement", and a druid with a "ring of horrid shielding".

 

I think I'd really like BG2's level of magical items MINUS most/all of the generics, which mostly had to be pawned off. So, you occasionally get some cool items after some encounters and small quests. Major quests give you a whole bunch of random magical items. BG2:TOB is just ridiculous in it's level of magic. PS:T is also fine with me, except I'd want more of the standard equippables. I don't really know BG as well. Icewind Dale 2 also did a reasonably good job in my eyes. I think DA and DA2's magic system is terrible, the same with ME1's loot system.

 

In any case, from the way this was sold, I see this as having to be a very high-magic campaign. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if their idea of the world would be the highest magic out of all of the pre-existing games, except maybe PS:T where thoughts defined existence, as I interpreted their theme as actually being "Everything is magic. Even mundane things are actually magic". So... I don't think these "magical items should be special" notions make any sense where the very nature of the campaign is defined by magical essences. So, if we're trying to handle a "very high" magic world(which I really think could be fascinating if we engage it on its own terms), I think avoiding notions of limiting magic would be better, and instead, the focus should be making instances of magic continually unique and special. Ways to do that are avoiding standard enchantments, always giving names and backstories when possible, etc. The value of magic will have to be defined by it's richness and the degree to which it fits into the larger perspective, and not by rarity. If EVERYTHING is magic in this world, then how do you now regard magic, and I think the way to do it isn't by economizing it, but rather by personalizing it. So, maybe stop treating magical items as objects, and instead treat them more like persons. There are no complaints about a "high NPC world" only about worlds where NPCs are too generic.

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I loved a lot of the little touches in PS:T that didn't actually effect gameplay, like all of the descriptions you got for trying the different drinks and candies sold around Sigil and the little trinkets in the curiosity shop. I'd like to see more stuff like that to add flavor to the world.

 

As far as actual magic weapons and accessories, the less generic the better. I'd personally rather not see plain old enchanted swords or swords +1 around. I feel like any magical item should have some sort of background or special name to it at least. Even something as simple as a flaming sword could be made unique with a little flair and history in the description. I'd want this even if it means I have to wait a bit to upgrade my steel sword to something more magical without having the whole +1 +2 upgrade in between to water everything down.

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The first time I played Pool of Radiance (old Gold Box D&D game), I had never been in contact with D&D before and I had not much experience with RPG's in general. So I played through that game, from the beginning to Tyranithraxus*, without ever realizing what the spell "detect magic" did. In practice, this means I only picked up magic items that were already identified.

 

A few years later I replayed the game and by now I had understood the whole concept of identifying magic items and the meaning of the detect magic spell. Imagine my surprise when I found out that even the first map after New Phlan (starting city) had a bunch of magic items! By the time I reached Tyranthraxus, my team of heroes were clad from top to toe in super powerful magic items.

 

The funny thing is though.. I've never had more fun than that first time playing through the game, scraping by with my 2-3 magic items (in a group of 6) and being genuinely happy whenever I found a new magic item.

 

I voted rare.

 

(*Tyranithraxus was a fake boss in the room before Tyranthraxus. I got stuck there for maybe 10 years before I realized the real end boss was in a hidden room behind that guy!)

Edited by mkreku
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"Magic items were rare and special."

 

No, they weren't. Magic items were rather common in BG. Any game where you cann buy magic items in stores can NEVER be considered 'low magic' or 'rare'.

 

I'm fine with that. To me, there's no logic reason to go with rare magic unless you are going for an actual low fantasy 'real' world scenario. If your world is gonna have magic it's gonna have magic.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Magic items for warriors and rogues should indeed be very rare but magic items for mages should be quite common(they are mages after all) but the really good/epic mage magic items should be rare and hard to find. Just because an item is magic doesn't have to mean it's good or even all that special and since mages don't usually wear armor enchanted protective items tend to make up for it.

Edited by Darth Trethon

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How rare you want them to be?

 

Personally, I liked the feel of Baldurs Gate 1 the most.

Magic items were rare and special. By the time I reached the game end, I didn't have a magic item in every slot for everyone.

 

It just seemed too silly for me. Almsot like every magic item worth something is gravitating towards you.

You come into town loaded with magic gear, carrying several bag of magical extras. Magic kinda loses it's impact..it's not that magical anymore when you can't take tow step without stubbing your toe on a magic item.

 

When you read fanatasy novels, the characters there usually don't have that many magic items either. Usually one or two signature ones.

 

A good, well-crafted steel sword shoudl serve one well the entire game.

2-3 (no more, it starts getting silly. DA sucked in this regard. In what sensible world would you see bronze, iron, steel and titanium weapons be used at the same time??) different sword materials and qualtiy can give variety (altough the differences would be small) without needing to be magical.

 

I'm not sure I want stuff really rare or really abundant, but I'd like to see pretty much every party members have something cool that fits their character/class.

 

You know, not random generic longsword +3, but you know, if you have a Paladin or something, then they can have some sort of holy armour gained from quest/backstory, or if you've got Demetrio the duelist, maybe he'd have a sword that could force people to have duels with him or something.

 

I think there's a lot of room for personalized magic equipment that fits with characters or stories.

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Let's not forget that "high/low fanatasy" is a term that is used to describe the woer of magic, rarity of magic and how available it is to common folk. This is practicly one term used for 3 different things.

 

Sayinh "high fantasy" can mean that magic is helluva powerfull. That magic is common. And that magic is accesable to everyone.

 

 

 

Now, if you want ot talk realism, having every items be "usiqe" and have a long description is also silly. Especially if magical items are not rare and mages produce simple magic swrods in numbers. Then there is no reason not to have a magic sword +1, since it really is an item like many similar. Freshly made with no history. It hasn't yet earend a name.

 

Historicly, weapons earned names based on the people who wielded them, even if they do not have any special magical powers.

 

HOWEVER, what this does mean is that even a simple item CAN get a name. That Longsword+1 that you used to slay the red dragon? He might now be known as <charnames> dragonslayer. Or "the Reds Bane"

That an item might gain some magical properties along the way depending how much you use it and what for - or if you purposfully upgrade it in various ways (not just by paying for it to be enchanted with more stuff).

Lets say you dip your sword in the holy waters of one of the great temples? Affix a magical emeral to the pommel? Annoit it with the blood of a demon? Will it have an effect?

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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"Magic items were rare and special."

 

No, they weren't. Magic items were rather common in BG. Any game where you cann buy magic items in stores can NEVER be considered 'low magic' or 'rare'.

 

I'm fine with that. To me, there's no logic reason to go with rare magic unless you are going for an actual low fantasy 'real' world scenario. If your world is gonna have magic it's gonna have magic.

 

In BG1 magic was rare. By TOB it wasn't anymore.

And I have to say I prefer BG1 feel and atmosphere far more. That "real" world scenario you speak off. Finally getting Spiders Bane was a "wow" moment.

By BG2 I had been selling legendary artifacts like it was candy.

By TOB I didn't even bother picking them up anymore.

 

 

Or take for example the Witcher. Loved the rarity of magic there.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Rare.

 

Also i would like to see some "possessed" items. Since its all out soul business in Eternity it makes sense. Like a weapon which had a powerfull beings soul inside and can upgrade itself 1or 2 timesif we kill some powerfull enemies.

And of course i demand(lol :)) a Lilarcor equivalent weapon. I LOVE SMELL OF DAISIES IN THE MORNING!

Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

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