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descalabro

Do you want this game to have puzzles, labyrinths and small challenges?

Puzzles, labyrinths and trials?  

291 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want to have them?

    • Yes, I absolutely love them and believe they should be a part of any acomplished cRPG
      211
    • I have no preference as long as they don't become a nuisance.
      68
    • I don't like them and they are time consuming for developers.
      12
  2. 2. How hard should they be?

    • I want very hard puzzles even if they cause severe injuries to my party and cause me to get stuck in the game.
      32
    • I want to be able to beat them even if it implies severe injuries to my party.
      47
    • I want to beat them with medium effort and (if necessary) medium injuries to my party (BG, IWD
      47
    • I want to beat them with ease; these things should be for entertainment only.
      19
    • All of the above depending on the area you're exploring.
      52
    • A mix of choices 2, 3 and 4 depending on the area you're exploring. I don't want to get stuck in the game because of this.
      94


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I've always liked some good puzzles (such as choosing the right combination to unlock a door), mini challenges (such as selecting one of your characters to beat a series of foes in a sequence of rooms) and labyrinths (both spacial and temporal) inside cRPG's, specially inside dungeons, castles, etc.

 

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Edited by descalabro

Project Eternity: Interactive/animated or descriptive? Check my poll and vote!

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I don't really favor people getting stuck. In a game like this, I think multiple approaches should be valid. If a player struggles with the puzzle, they can, and perhaps should, have a character based option to overcome. Cutting the knot, as it were.

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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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Don't make it to easy though, I would love some weird sidequests or encounters that is just weird or hard to wrap your head around.

 

MM6 Obeleisks anyone ?

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i like puzzle and riddle solving in my rpgs but its best to keep it to long side quests and dungeons that are not connected to the main story. in the main story the riddles and puzzles should be part of optional side tracks or alternative routes but there should always be a puzzle free road to go on if you cant or dont want to solve them


The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

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I'm OK with puzzles and traps that are deadly, but they shouldn't be a choke point in the main story. That is, they should be surmountable with mundane means for those that despise them, but it's not a bad idea to have a greater reward for those people who want to take the time to solve it. For example think of a side chamber in a dungeon with a nasty trap/puzzle with a fantastical artifact waiting for the player who can suss it out, but if the player can't, they are free to move on and leave it alone.

Edited by nikolokolus
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I support puzzles and traps but these are should be minimal on main quests.

However there should be many, hard puzzles, hidden treasures, shortcuts for those who want to explore.

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Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

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I love puzzles and riddles but agree they should be mainly for side quests. Depending on the difficulty I think there should be an in-game solution to be found. Hints could be given. Maybe one of your party able to suggest a solution. Maybe the puzzle could lead to a less combat oriented path with an alternate rout that would have difficult combat.

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 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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I support puzzles and traps but these are should be minimal on main quests.

However there should be many, hard puzzles, hidden treasures, shortcuts for those who want to explore.

 

Totally agree. The best puzzles are the ones you can set aside and come back to later. If you are stuck on the main plot, it can frustrate people to not want to play the game or even worse, use a walkthrough *shudders*.

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although i like them they shouldn't be "adventure" genre hard. I have no preference as long as they don't become a nuisance. option is fine, like in ps:t.


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I like rpg games that force you to think. Don`t like games with nothing but button smashing.

indeed but they must have a way to go on for those of limited mental capacity or limited patience. if they block your way with a puzzle that needs 200 IQ to solve they kill your will to play


The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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Always like a good puzzle, the harder the better. However it needs to be logical rather than the old point and click adventure way, which necessitated trying everything until you stumbled across whatever strange method the developer had opted for.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I like them, but you could give the option of bypassing them if your player character (or maybe any of the companion who joined the party) pass a successful check on the skill required (strenght trial, dex trial, etc....or even through dialogue) Otherwise, you'll have to "manually" figure them out :)


"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance" - Wing Commander IV

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Absolutely love puzzles! I don't want them in every dungeon, but have a few scattered about. I like variety, not only in structure, but difficulty. Make some murderous, some purely mentally challenging.

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I like them, but you could give the option of bypassing them if your player character (or maybe any of the companion who joined the party) pass a successful check on the skill required (strenght trial, dex trial, etc....or even through dialogue) Otherwise, you'll have to "manually" figure them out :)

 

This is how it should be done, in my opinion!


English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes!

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Adding puzzles just for puzzles sake? No.

 

If it is in context of the game/world/area sure, as long as it fits the current situation.

 

Agreed. I think that, like mini-games, puzzles are okay as long as they involve character skill and maybe even personality. That and/or use the mechanics of the game world in a way that blends in. So puzzles like in Planescape: Torment with TNO's tomb or Ultima 7 with stackable items actually add a lot to the world imo. But something like the tower of hanoi doesn't really add anything to the game.

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A little challenge is good, stops the player from plowing ahead to the next area. But we do want the PC to progress forward and not get stuck, so I would want something to look puzzling but not necessarily so difficult that I got to check Walkthroughs, guides, etc. That defeats the purpose behind having a puzzle.

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I rather have puzzles that are less mechanical (interaction with switches and tiles) and more research oriented.

 

For example: you read a couple of different pieces of lore and were able to see the big picture of it all. So to now you know to which location you have to travel, which items you have to combine, and the precise time when you should do it.

Other example: you found out a piece of cloth at a crime scene, you ask/persuade/bribe the tailer to tell you more about it, he tells you who bought it, you confront the customer/assassin.

 

This would require a bit of UI shifting from traditional molds to allow item use on item or character, but I think it can enrich the game a lot more. (hell FO allowed this, like use explosive on cave, or use rope on pit)

This is type of world interaction I like to see. Not the ahoy-check-the-barrel type of interaction we see in most "cRPGs".

 

 

If any moderator sees this thread, can he merge this one with http://forums.obsidi...bg2-yay-or-nay/ ? IMO they are practically the same.

(with this one being the main thread since it has more options)

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A reasonable example I can think of is the puzzle in the temple in the Umar hills in BG2.

 

Throughout the ruins you came across some writings scattered in different locations laying out the rituals the old inhabitants of the temple used to perform throughout the day in a daily routine. You the player had to read and understand them before being asked questions as to the correct order the rituals were supposed to be performed in.

 

It was simple, logical and not particularly difficult but still added to the experience by illustrating that this long abandoned ruined and dangerous temple was once full of living breathing worshippers of a benevolent deity, was pretty cool.

Edited by Vorhees

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This is like a non poll. Of course the game should have puzzles, mini challenges, traps, etc. The only question is how punishing you want them to be, should the player be able to bypass some or all of them, and what type of rewards should be there for optional ones.

 

Those answers are also sort of obvious though. 1: If the game has scalable challenge let that determine how detrimental messing up is, if not keep it at a medium level since that is what "most" will likely prefer. 2: Sure they should be able to bypass most of them with creative play and proper use of Character skills. Having a couple you "have" to solve puzzles is fine though. 3: Depends totally on how hard the trap/puzzle was to bypass or solve and the level at which you encounter it.

 

If another games method has to be followed I would actually suggest looking at the MMO "The Secret World". That game has everything from ball busting ones that make you research old paintings, to deciphering hieroglyphics, to reading morse code. Not to mention the more direct stuff like switch puzzles and or just reading various books/notes for passwords or codes.

Edited by Karkarov
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It should definetly have puzzles in it. But i hope they won`t be too challenging so i don`t smash my keyboard with frustration.


2 atoms walk into a bar, the one says " I believe i have lost an electron!" the other says " Are you sure?" the first atom says " I'm positive! "

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Absolutely love puzzles! I don't want them in every dungeon, but have a few scattered about. I like variety, not only in structure, but difficulty. Make some murderous, some purely mentally challenging.

 

My thoughts exactly.

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