IcewindDave Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 For those of us in the LGBT community, it's incredibly easy to feel very misrepresented in video games. I don't want this to be another one of those threads where people whine about being discriminated against, but I have a difficult time identifying with my in-game avatars when there is no option for transgender. I am what I am, and it's unfortunate that I struggle to find other outlets to express myself. I have always had a strong preference for RPGs due to the fact that I can always be something in virtual reality that I can never be in real life. I know that it's a challenging issue when there are many who are very uncomfortable with LGBT issues bleeding over into the gaming community, but it's 2012. We need to move past certain hurdles that prevent a large group of players from feeling connected to the rest of the community. As a transgender woman, I would definitely appreciate the ability to create a character in this game that would reflect who I am in real life. There are several ways to successfully implement a feature like this without alienating other gamers. My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenaap Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Aren't the elves androgynous enough as they are (going by standard fantasy tropes) to roleplay a transgender character? I'm asking because I'm not really sure what you're asking for specifically? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 In BG 1&2 there was that cursed belt which changed characters gender. It gave many hilarious moments especially with Edwin . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcewindDave Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 And here we go again... I apologize if something like this has been covered but I did a forum search and I didn't find a question like this. I am very passionate about donating a lot of money to this project if it is going to be something that will help me immerse myself in a universe that I can truly be at home in. I also apologize if something about this was offensive to you, as I found it to be incredibly reasonable. I don't see why it would be detrimental to the community to have races or characters that could be identified as both (or neither) man and woman. I don't find it to be selfish when it's an OPTION, not something you're being forced into. Elves are androgynous as it is, why would it be out of the question to continue to paint them in a light that members of the trans community could identify with? Again, I'm sorry if it offends you if you have very conservative views about life that prevent you from seeing other people as equals but I just want this project to be the one I can happily give my money to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) For those of us in the LGBT community, it's incredibly easy to feel very misrepresented in video games. I don't want this to be another one of those threads where people whine about being discriminated against, but I have a difficult time identifying with my in-game avatars when there is no option for transgender. I am what I am, and it's unfortunate that I struggle to find other outlets to express myself. I have always had a strong preference for RPGs due to the fact that I can always be something in virtual reality that I can never be in real life. I know that it's a challenging issue when there are many who are very uncomfortable with LGBT issues bleeding over into the gaming community, but it's 2012. We need to move past certain hurdles that prevent a large group of players from feeling connected to the rest of the community. As a transgender woman, I would definitely appreciate the ability to create a character in this game that would reflect who I am in real life. There are several ways to successfully implement a feature like this without alienating other gamers. My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe. I think its a reasonable and rationale question. You shouldn't ever feel the need in life to explain or justify your sexual orientation. I live in a country where your sexual orientation is protected in our constitution and everyone has a right to human dignity, we are very proud and supportive of our Constitution . I have been surprised on these forums by the occasional bigoted and derogatory comments I have seen by some that people think are an "expression of free speech". These comments are generally around the whole issue of homosexuality in the game on any level Edited September 20, 2012 by BruceVC 4 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenaap Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Still though, I wouldn't soon roleplay a transgender character, but I would say it would be as easy picking a female avatar and roleplaying it as a male character or vice versa of course. After all isn't that the point of roleplaying, filling in the blanks in your head?. Now I can understand it might be weird if your transgender character looked like Arnold Schwarzenegger or had cupsize DD, but presumably elves for example wouldn't have that particular problem.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattghern Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 but as a transgender woman don't you for all intens and purposes feel like a woman? then you could pick a female avatar and roleplay that she was a man previously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amused Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 To make the PC transgender should, as mentioned above, be pretty easy to do without making it a part of the game mechanics. The PC is never going to be as "fleshed out" as the NPCs in a game like this, and filling out the blanks is pretty much a part of the game experience for any type of character. As for the NPCs and the rest of the world at large I'm cool with anything that a)makes sense in the narrative at large and b) is well executed. Said it in the other thread (one of the others), sexual morality questions - with different views in different parts of the world - could be very interesting to explore in a game like this if it is implemented in a good way. The Fallout NV-route is cool as well. I don't want any straight or gay character throwing their sexuality at me in rediculous ways - keep it realistic an keep it dignified. We don't really need "I'm the only gay in this village"-characters - though, come to think of it, as a referance that would be pretty funny (Sorry about spelling errors - non-english auto-correct at work...) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintersong Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Do you know about the Book of Erotic Fantasy? It's a D&D book about sexual magic. Yep. I can seem many facepalming and such but let me remind all of you that if magic was real (in Forgotten Realms they consider it quite real, by the way), they would actually invent those kind of spells. Because it's only natural. So yeah, no need of polymorph or shapechange to give your fighter a good "weapon". If you know what I mean. But why isn't that kind of magic presented in the regular RPG setting? Because it's not the focus of those kind of games. You are to play some kind of stereotypical adventurer having the stereotypical adventures, not delving into those pervert magical users at the Temple of Afrodita(or Sune or...) and how they can make you climax just by casting a spell (or protecting your girlfriend from being able to get pregnant if you run out of mundane protection). Altough nothing prevents the DMs and players from playing whatever they want in whatever way they want... I'd not mind a transgendered character (NPC, companion or PC). But as many other stuff, it would need to make sense to include it. And certainly not adding it "just because". It could also be said something about how adding a transgendered character could deviate the focus unnecesarily (unless it has some important part in the game?). Somehow I find easier to allow people to wear clothes of the opposite sex... beyond disguise purposes. Edited September 20, 2012 by Wintersong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkcrab Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) As an asexual person, I'd happily play a race of golems, mollusks or squid people. I'm just saying. The world throws too much sexuality in my face every day as it is. That said, I'm pretty sure Obsidian has a specific vision for the game-world, and they have a limited budget. It's really their call whether non-binary gender options are a suitable for both of those, I think. They're pretty much the best bet you get for intelligent treatment of it, yes, but even so there's a lot of things to consider. Edited September 20, 2012 by Monkcrab 2 Sword Sharpener of the Obsidian Order (will also handle pitchforks and other sharp things) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amused Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 How about those of us in the zoophilia-movement? Any love for us? Yes, here we go again... Really not up to drgonzo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipboy2000 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) There are several ways to successfully implement a feature like this without alienating other gamers. My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe. When I read the first part of your post, I thought it might be very hard to implement a "transgender option" into a game without a huge amount of work. But in my opinion, this is a fair proposal, that can be accomplished rather easy. I like it! --- Edit: How about those of us in the zoophilia-movement? Any love for us? The difference in between people like IcewindDave and you is, that while he elaborately explains his point of view and proposes fair solutions you just blare a stupid one liner, that is not only in no way connected to the topic, but a very personal insult to him, even if you may deny that. Shame on you! Edited September 20, 2012 by pipboy2000 3 English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbscape_Torment Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What's the point? You identify as the opposite gender of what you were born. Why not make the avatar's gender the one you wish to be/have been changed to. Does it honestly make a difference if the character used to be a chick/dude? Does that seriously change the character's perspective on things? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) but as a transgender woman don't you for all intens and purposes feel like a woman? then you could pick a female avatar and roleplay that she was a man previously This was my immediate thought too. If there is some reason why this wouldn't work or make sense, I'd love to hear it. First thing that comes to mind is if there was a background for the PC integrated into the game, where your parent or guardian was an NPC and mentioned "oh, you were such an <adjective> little girl/boy," which could break immersion a bit. Can't really think of any other obstacle, though. And you could just RP such a moment as the parent/guardian respecting your wish to identify as a certain gender and describing you that way retroactively. Edited September 20, 2012 by Estelindis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amused Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Cross dressing would be kind of cool though. No "female only" clothes - and the world reacting to cross dressers. Everything from "Hello [(N)PC-NAME]" to "..um.. what the fu... ah, whatever" and "What the hell? Die, freak!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 but as a transgender woman don't you for all intens and purposes feel like a woman? then you could pick a female avatar and roleplay that she was a man previously This was my immediate thought too. If there is some reason why this wouldn't work or make sense, I'd love to hear it. First thing that comes to mind is if there was a background for the PC integrated into the game, where your parent or guardian was an NPC and mentioned "oh, you were such an <adjective> little girl/boy," which could break immersion a bit. Can't really think of any other obstacle, though. And you could just RP such a moment as the parent/guardian respecting your wish to identify as a certain gender and describing you that way retroactively. Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way. 2 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amused Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way. That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Not what the op had in mind, but I'll add I'd like if female and male armor and clothing didn't "change sex" when transferred from one character to another. Found this particularly annoying in Elder Scrolls games where I often play a female. Kill someone for their pants and armor, like women do, only to find the pants have morphed into another damn dress and the plate now has open cleavage down to navel. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenaap Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way. I don't get it, it's just useless Live Action Role Playing? Care to elaborate,what do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way. That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer. Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipboy2000 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Cross dressing would be kind of cool though. No "female only" clothes - and the world reacting to cross dressers. Everything from "Hello [(N)PC-NAME]" to "..um.. what the fu... ah, whatever" and "What the hell? Die, freak!". Even though it is off-topic: Cross dressing! This is an absolutely great idea! You could use that for some hilarious quests! For example: You would have to dress in women's clothes to infiltrate a place where only women can go. This could result into some huge barbarian starting to flirt with you, or yourself trying to seduce a guard to lure him away from his post, and so on... I think you could write some incredible dialogue in that context. As I said, an amazing idea! Edited September 20, 2012 by pipboy2000 English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenup Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 "The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance" - Wing Commander IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way. I don't get it, it's just useless Live Action Role Playing? Care to elaborate,what do you mean? It's shorthand for the brand of "role playing" that infests Oblivion and other games of its ilk - saying it does not matter that the game does not support your choices in any meaningful way, you can do it yourself in your head (without any response from the game environment, mind you) and it is just as good. Like you can "play" town guard in Oblivion by killing one for his armour (muhahaha) and than roam the roads and kill bandits, while taking periodic breaks to report to your superiors (who do not recognize you as a guard but that never mattered to these people) DO. NOT. DO. THIS. Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 you know i am a tentacle lover and i would pledge 250$... you guys at obsidian only have to spend around 10k to add a lovely kraken i can bromance! i know that i am a minority but this would expand your universe to an incredible level of detail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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