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Just how big a game are we talking about here?

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I hadn't really given this much thought until recently, pretty much assuming that a minimum 40 or 50 hour game was the least we could expect. I don't know if a BG2 style 100 hour epic is reasonable for this budget. But I'm seeing some people on other boards reluctant to kicstart this because they are concerned that if they put in $140 or one of the other large tiers they aren't going to get that much gameplay. This line from the Eurogamer piece isn't helping convince those doubters:

 

My theory is Obsidian may opt for an episodic approach. Not literally, but to launch a realistically-sized adventure first, then to build the world out with subsequent instalments after that. The feast would be staggered over courses, rather than Obsidian faced with the daunting prospect of cooking and presenting it all at once.

The Project Eternity Kickstarter blurb mentioned taking your hero character through "future adventures", which seemed to back this theory up. "Yes," Cain answered, "we are hoping to make additional content for the game which you can explore with the same characters."

 

Now my interpretation of what Tim Cain said is that they want to do sequels and even expansions for this world, which is fine by me. But many people seem to think like the article writer that its confirmation that the first game isn't going to be as big as they think it should be to justify more then one of the smaller kicstarter amounts.

 

Anyone seen anything that clarfiies this?

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I haven't seen anything, and I'm also reluctant to donate more if the game's going to be shorter based on the small budget. It was my understanding that they wanted to make it a series or a trilogy or something.

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I'd like to think that the project has generated enough interest and support that Obsidian really have to try and deliver a game that's epic in both scale and depth. They shouldn't think too far ahead about sequels or expansions and start holding stuff back because of that.

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how much did planescape torment cost and how long was it in game hours unit? :blink:

(so we can have a reference)

Edited by molarBear

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how much did planescape torment cost and how long was it in game hours unit? :blink:

(so we can have a reference)

That won't be a good reference because you can't compare actual costs (wages, hardware, software, external business) with costs in the early 2000s.


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While the budget will be somewhat limited of course (who knows what it would be compared to what a Planescape or BG2 would cost if they were made today), I must admit I don't quite get the idea that people will hold back their money based on that. I mean, if you pledge 25 bucks, you get a copy of the game... And 25 bucks seems like a pretty good deal even if the game is not a colossus like BG2 or Arcanum. Plus... if you pledge... then that means bigger budget... which means, yes... more content!

 

I mean, I perfectly understand not wanting to put in 140 bucks because hey... That's a lot of money. But I mean, every little bit helps. So put in a lower pledge if you're not feeling 100%.

 

I imagine it would be pretty hard for the devs to be able to estimate how big the game will be anyways (again, how the hell does one measure gameplay hours in a game that is not only barely in pre-production, but also has a budget which is not set yet).

Edited by Starwars
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neverwinter nights 2 was super long in terms of hours, but honestly, got boring partway through it.

 

i'd rather a tighter experience like fallout 1 or baldurs gate 1 (though both those games are still pretty hefty, at least for a first playthrough)

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I expect something like Mask of Betrayer. Not very long, focused, but with some twists which make game worth replaying. I am not sure it would ever be as big as Baldur's Gate or Arcanum.

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Donations are not on a "value of the return in gifts to the donator" sense.

 

The tiers of rewards are thank-you's and incentives to get you to donate, not a marketplace where you are picking what you want to buy and are getting your money's value in goods.

 

You could donate and not pick any reward tier, or one well below how much you donate.

 

Everytime someone says something like "thirty dollars more and all I get is a t-shirt" I think "there's another person who doesn't understand Kickstarter, donations, or pledge drives."

 

It's like giving $50 to NPR and getting a mug. No mug is worth $50... and you aren't paying for the mug.

 

Any physical rewards they give you have to be covered by the donation - not just the item itself, but the design of the item, the shipping, and the logisitics of managing all the different tiers to get all those items to people - not to mention Kickstarter and Amazon's cuts... and, you know, the game you are giving money to because you believe in it and want it to succeed.

 

If you think "I'm donating $140 so I want a game twice as long as Dragon Age: Origins" then you are absolutely missing the point. Even at the $25 tier, you aren't paying for your copy of the game - you are giving Obsidian $25 (minus taxes, others cuts, etc.) so they can make the game. Because you choose the gift of "here's a digital copy to thank you for the donation" still doesn't mean you are pre-ordering the game. For you it is almost effectively the same as a very early pre-order that you can't get the money back from, sure... but it isn't a pre-order.

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I hope for 20 hours on my first play through -- I suspect 10-15 is more reasonable, though. Either way, I expect to get another 5-10 hours out of a single replay, and that will probably be that (until the hoped for expansions / sequels, obviously).

 

And what Merlin said (if you are donating to Kickstarter because you want the goodies, you are totally missing the point).

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Remember it's their game, they get 100% of your money, so I definitly wouldn't mind some DLC adventures. They should be somewhat substantial though, can't just have a 2 level dungeon.

 

As for the main game, I don't mind if it's a bit shorter if that also means it has more replayability. But even then I'd want at least 30-40 hours.

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I would like to second Merin's point. Once my next paycheck comes in I am planning on donating $250, not because of the signatures I get on top of the $140 investment, but because I whole heartedly want this project to succeed and I want to be a part of that success. It is an investment in this game worlds future. I sincerely hope the $250 I am giving them goes much further than a defacto loan. I want this project to succeed so that when they are done the proceeds can go to a bigger and better follow up, and this great developer can ween themselves off of dependence to publishers and just make games like this all the time.

 

I hope the game breaks 20 hours. But if it doesn't if it is more 10-15 hours of gameplay I will not cry. We are simply helping Obsidian to build a foundation so that they can make this fantasy world and its gameplay systems a reality. One that can span many games into the future, without the hassle of a publisher and hopefully without having for us to kickstart each one.

Edited by dukeofyork
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Why do people care so much about how many hours the game takes to complete?

 

Games shouldn't be valued based on how big they are, especially not a classical RPG which probably offer great replayability.

Edited by Playgu
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I expect it to be a good 20 hours if you scour the world... but who knows, it could be more! They probably receive more money per pledge than they would from the same amount in retail sales. It is better for them and better for us!


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I would expect something of the depth of BG2, with the length of BG1.

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Remember it's their game, they get 100% of your money, so I definitly wouldn't mind some DLC adventures. They should be somewhat substantial though, can't just have a 2 level dungeon.

 

As for the main game, I don't mind if it's a bit shorter if that also means it has more replayability. But even then I'd want at least 30-40 hours.

Agree with this. I don't mind a shorter game. I'd like to see some replay value also.

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I hope that I can spend 50 hours or more on a single playthrough with extensive exploring. But I would double my pledge instantly if they confirm a scope comparable to BG 2 (not simply in length but also in depth, quality and complexitiy).

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I hope for 20 hours on my first play through -- I suspect 10-15 is more reasonable, though. Either way, I expect to get another 5-10 hours out of a single replay, and that will probably be that (until the hoped for expansions / sequels, obviously).

 

And what Merlin said (if you are donating to Kickstarter because you want the goodies, you are totally missing the point).

 

Don't like being an a**hole but if this shows signs of being a 10-15 hour game im pulling my pledge. But with the infinity games as inspiration i reckon i'll get at least 40 hours out of it considering i'm pretty ocd on exploration.

Edited by Gyges

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I hadn't really given this much thought until recently, pretty much assuming that a minimum 40 or 50 hour game was the least we could expect. I don't know if a BG2 style 100 hour epic is reasonable for this budget. But I'm seeing some people on other boards reluctant to kicstart this because they are concerned that if they put in $140 or one of the other large tiers they aren't going to get that much gameplay. This line from the Eurogamer piece isn't helping convince those doubters:

 

My theory is Obsidian may opt for an episodic approach. Not literally, but to launch a realistically-sized adventure first, then to build the world out with subsequent instalments after that. The feast would be staggered over courses, rather than Obsidian faced with the daunting prospect of cooking and presenting it all at once.

The Project Eternity Kickstarter blurb mentioned taking your hero character through "future adventures", which seemed to back this theory up. "Yes," Cain answered, "we are hoping to make additional content for the game which you can explore with the same characters."

 

Now my interpretation of what Tim Cain said is that they want to do sequels and even expansions for this world, which is fine by me. But many people seem to think like the article writer that its confirmation that the first game isn't going to be as big as they think it should be to justify more then one of the smaller kicstarter amounts.

 

Anyone seen anything that clarfiies this?

 

This is Obsidian. Not EA DLC milking.

They're honest and I'm looking forward to new adventures of their new IP.

 

 

 

I have a question to Obsidian:

how much would it cost to make a game with the size of BG2, the roleplay of Arcanum, and with the story depth of PS:T?

(I would also wanted to say, with the tactical combat of ToEE, but alas :p)

If it's under 5 million, you should make it a stretch goal.

And if it's more, but not much more, you should do what Fargo did: say in fact you'll be needing more, but if you don't reach it, you'll invest from your own pockets.

 

Alternatively if you can say a reasonable budget for a game with 75% of the content referenced above, in my book, that is still an amazing game and deal for $25 (obviously that I'm going for the 250$ tier :dancing:)

 

FWIW, yes I know a game's quality (or anything else for that matter) shouldn't really be measure on how much time you spend with it (boring fedex quests anyone?), but on it's quality. Still, I guess we all enjoy a game that allows us to do plenty of stuff (not necessarily related to the main quest).

Edited by hideo kuze

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lets try this another way: how many deep rpg's have been made which take most players less than 20 hours on the first play through?

 

the shortest one i can think of is fallout 1, and that took me well over 20 hours to finish on my first play through

 

edit: so, if they are making a deep rpg, chances are it will also be over 20 hours.

Edited by entrerix

The Internet: A place where everything is literally binary and the only shade of grey is the one seen by angry nerds when imagining what their ideal Diablo screen-shots look like.

Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.

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lets try this another way: how many deep rpg's have been made which take most players less than 20 hours on the first play through?

 

the shortest one i can think of is fallout 1, and that took me well over 20 hours to finish on my first play through

 

edit: so, if they are making a deep rpg, chances are it will also be over 20 hours.

Yeah, but 20 hours are nothing for a classic (text-driven) isometric RPG. It took you already hours reading all the dialogue.... ;)

 

 

But I join the question stated above about the minimum sum for creating a game of the size of BG 2 and the depth of PST!


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I have a question to Obsidian:

how much would it cost to make a game with the size of BG2, the roleplay of Arcanum, and with the story depth of PS:T?

(I would also wanted to say, with the tactical combat of ToEE, but alas :p)

I would really like to know the answer to this as well.

 

The impression I got was that this was a very ambitious project aiming to produce the ultimate IE-styled CRPG, with the best aspects of all the IE games. Perhaps I bought into the initial pitch a bit too much and don't know enough about the costs of making a video game, but i'd really like to think that they're not going to set their sights or ambitions lower than the IE games in any area... whether it be the story depth of PS:T, the size of BG2, etc.

Edited by Piccolo

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It would probably cost 8-10 million :p


Grandiose statements, cryptic warnings, blind fanboyisim and an opinion that leaves no room for argument and will never be dissuaded. Welcome to the forums, you'll go far in this place my boy, you'll go far!

 

The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred.

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