Publishers accused of trying to exploit Kickstarter (Obsidian)

[Longknife]

They attempted to do a kickstarter for Battlechess.

 

http://www.kickstart...hess?ref=search

 

I cringed.

 

Hard.

[Leferd]

They attempted to do a kickstarter for Battlechess.

 

http://www.kickstart...hess?ref=search

 

I cringed.

 

Hard.

 

Quite cringeworthy.. Pretty sad and desperate, really.

[KenThomas]

Are we blowing it out of proportion? One step down the wrong path can lead to a greater evil. Publishers have taken over developers and we are getting shoddy games. A game that needs to be patched seven times and still causes problems is not acceptable. I do think publishers are concerned about Kickstarter because it does give developers freedom to be developers. To make the games they want to make the way they want to make them. Neither do they need to worry about loosing their job. The developer retains the rights to their IP.

 

Maybe the games won't be as big or flashy but maybe they will depth to the, be bug free and truly responsive to what players want. Maybe publishers will come to their senses and having a sense of responsibility to the customers. Maybe I dream.

 

I think that this puts accountability where it should be. Directly from the fans to the developers. Dev's having to constantly be accountable to publishers has truly ruined games in the past. The main problem is that publishers care way more about return on their investment than they do quality of the final product. That means they will try to push products out according to time metrics that show them they'll hit sales goals and they'll try to wedge it into a quarterly earnings report so that they look good to their stockholders and get their bonuses. This eliminates that conflict of interest and puts the focus on the game itself, which can only be good for both devs and fans.

[alanschu]

I find it hard to believe that the publisher wasn't offering anything (i.e. more sales through increased distribution or translating or marketing etc.). Maybe they just thought adding their name to it would provide benefits?

 

I suspect the conversation didn't go just as described, even if that's the way Obsidian saw it (which is a valid way to see it). IIRC Fargo had similar offers from publishers once Wasteland went live.

[alanschu]

hat means they will try to push products out according to time metrics that show them they'll hit sales goals and they'll try to wedge it into a quarterly earnings report so that they look good to their stockholders and get their bonuses.

 

Well, not all publishers are publicly traded. Though I'm very curious to see how the kickstarter stuff starts panning out if/when studios start slipping on their deadlines and ultimately need to start putting in their own money to see the product through.

 

It's all very exciting, but as Avellone shared with that comic, there's no shortage of pressure on Obsidian to not just deliver, but deliver on budget and in a timely manner.

 

 

Actually, bringing up that it happened yet not naming the studio protects Obsidian far more than if they were to say nothing at all. Now publishers won't dare sue them because as soon as they do everyone will think it was that publisher that tried to engage Obsidian in the kickstarter fraud scheme.

 

It doesn't provide an ounce of additional protection since no publisher has a case. There's no libel here. It'd be a waste of any publisher that tried to pursue litigation.

Edited September 21, 2012 by alanschu

[KenThomas]

---

BTW, Urquhart supposedly posted an follow up to the comment made in the OP's link. (Can't seem to find the original source though.)

"I think they were trying, honestly, to be able to do something with us and they felt that was the easiest way to do it. They would then not need to go get budget approved and deal with the challenge of that," he wrote in a follow-up post. "What I don't think they did was to think about our side of it and what they were really asking."

 

EDIT: You can read Obsidian's comments here (just keep scrolling down for September 18th comments starting with "@Steven" for the initial comment and then scroll up to a comment addressed with "@fredgiblet" to see the comment I quoted above). To see it in context, you're going to have to look through the comments of the kickstarter page.

 

Please. He was obviously either contacted by the publisher after this story got featured on sites like Kotaku with an angry "you TOLD them what I SAID???" or figured he'd voluntarily do some light damage control before he got an angry statement like that. If I were CEO of a company I wouldn't be in a huge rush to burn bridges either. The forseeable future might not have them needing to use the services of said publisher, but who knows what the case will be 5 years down the road?

Edited September 21, 2012 by KenThomas

[Gurkog]

Feargus was drumming up free publicity. it worked.

[IcyDeadPeople]

Raise your pledges, fan funding is the only future for real RPGs:

http://www.destructo...er-235292.phtml

 

(Publishers will get caught eventually)

 

I can only hope perhaps the publisher in question was proposing development of one of their own IPs, otherwise, it sounds like a deceitful tactic.

 

However, as for the concept of a large publisher using Kickstarter directly as a sounding board for a risky project, why not?

 

I'm sure there are lots of interesting projects larger publishers have considered over the years but rejected because they appealed to a small niche audience, or might have been perhaps too risky in some way. A Kickstarter could be a way for a publisher to appeal directly to fans to see if there is enough interest for such a project.

Edited September 21, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[alanschu]

Curious how it would work if a big publishers tried to use a kickstarter.

[Tale]

Lots of dumbfounded looks, ellipses, and question marks.

[Gatt9]

Curious how it would work if a big publishers tried to use a kickstarter.

 

It would work out relatively well.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with a Publisher doing a kickstarter. It would permit them to gamble on an edgy idea while minimizing risk and maximizing potential. From a Gamer's perspective, it'd just be a cheap pre-order. The Publisher's could toss out innovative, or "Niche" ideas, and if they fly, their team is paid for and gamers get diversity.

 

The problem is: This assumes Publishers are interested in making great games. Which they're sadly not. Publishers today are interested only in bringing the next Call of Duty to market. Even if today's Publishers did try this, there'd be abyssmal QA and the bare minimum in gameplay.

 

This event though, this is different. It's a lecherous Publisher wanting Obsidian to be a level of misdirection for them, without offering anything at all in return of significance.

 

$5 says that by the end of 2014, we see most Publishers doing Kickstarters while bleeding money due to their inability to adapt to the market.

[Torgamous]

Curious how it would work if a big publishers tried to use a kickstarter.

 

It would work out relatively well.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with a Publisher doing a kickstarter. It would permit them to gamble on an edgy idea while minimizing risk and maximizing potential. From a Gamer's perspective, it'd just be a cheap pre-order. The Publisher's could toss out innovative, or "Niche" ideas, and if they fly, their team is paid for and gamers get diversity.

 

The problem is: This assumes Publishers are interested in making great games. Which they're sadly not.

I don't think that good games are all it's limited too. What you're describing is every company owner's wet dream: a focus group that doubles as an investor you'll never have to pay back. Aside from assured franchises of the Call of Madden: Modern Warcraft variety, you'd be an idiot to not try that, assuming people can be convinced to go along with such a system.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Torgamous

[alanschu]

Curious how it would work if a big publishers tried to use a kickstarter.

 

It would work out relatively well.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with a Publisher doing a kickstarter. It would permit them to gamble on an edgy idea while minimizing risk and maximizing potential. From a Gamer's perspective, it'd just be a cheap pre-order. The Publisher's could toss out innovative, or "Niche" ideas, and if they fly, their team is paid for and gamers get diversity.

 

The problem is: This assumes Publishers are interested in making great games. Which they're sadly not. Publishers today are interested only in bringing the next Call of Duty to market. Even if today's Publishers did try this, there'd be abyssmal QA and the bare minimum in gameplay.

 

This event though, this is different. It's a lecherous Publisher wanting Obsidian to be a level of misdirection for them, without offering anything at all in return of significance.

 

$5 says that by the end of 2014, we see most Publishers doing Kickstarters while bleeding money due to their inability to adapt to the market.

 

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

 

 

As for the QA, is there any innate reason why a big publisher would do any different than, say, Obsidian?

[Bos_hybrid]

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

 

I think it would depend on the game, and the team developing the game.

 

It would cause a stir, but if done right I could see an Ultima or Wing Commander getting the funding.

[KenThomas]

 

As for the QA, is there any innate reason why a big publisher would do any different than, say, Obsidian?

 

Aside from the obvious? Publishers don't make games, they just finance, distribute and market them.

[alanschu]

As for the QA, is there any innate reason why a big publisher would do any different than, say, Obsidian?

 

Aside from the obvious? Publishers don't make games, they just finance, distribute and market them.

 

Publishers often do make games (EA, Bethsoft, Activision) so I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I'm still not at all sure what this does or does not have to do with any assumptions that the QA would be superior/inferior. Was there something else more obvious that I missed?

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, most publishers make games as well, Activision, EA, 2k, THQ, Sega, Paradox, Bethesda etc. They may have parallel structures like Take2 and 2kgames, or Zenimax and BethesdaGS, and subsidiary game studios but it's still the same company.

 

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

The two EA examples Bos_hybrid named (especially a Roberts helmed Wing Commander/ Privateer) would do pretty well I would think, though I'd think something like Baldurs Gate would be more likely. It'd tweak the noses of the Kickstarter Purity Brigade- and there are obvious reasons why a developer might not want to do it that way- but I could certainly see those examples working out.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Zoraptor

[Sylvius the Mad]

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

I think it would depend on the game, and the team developing the game.

 

It would cause a stir, but if done right I could see an Ultima or Wing Commander getting the funding.

Do you think gamers would trust EA to assemble a good team to make an Ultima or Wing Commander worthy of the name? They're making an Ultima right now, and their public statements on the gameplay are cringe-worthy.

[nikolokolus]

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

I think it would depend on the game, and the team developing the game.

 

It would cause a stir, but if done right I could see an Ultima or Wing Commander getting the funding.

Do you think gamers would trust EA to assemble a good team to make an Ultima or Wing Commander worthy of the name? They're making an Ultima right now, and their public statements on the gameplay are cringe-worthy.

 

Let me guess, players will have the opportunity to buy magical weapons and artifacts in game for the low, low price of $2 dollars a piece and it's going to have ten times more awesome?

[alanschu]

I think that IF EA were to do it, they'd burn the bridge of ever being able to do it again if they didn't actually deliver what they mandated they were going to do as part of the kickstarter (which is what people base their opinion on).

 

I'd wager the principle reason is mostly just opportunity cost. For a company sitting on a billionish dollars in liquid capital, pulling in $3 million in a kickstarter is a drop in the bucket really.

[smithereen]

Now I love Obsidian... but that interview is bordering on CD Project-level populism. -2 respect.

 

(Don't worry, Obsidian is still my favorite dev house)

[WorstUsernameEver]

Please. He was obviously either contacted by the publisher after this story got featured on sites like Kotaku with an angry "you TOLD them what I SAID???" or figured he'd voluntarily do some light damage control before he got an angry statement like that. If I were CEO of a company I wouldn't be in a huge rush to burn bridges either. The forseeable future might not have them needing to use the services of said publisher, but who knows what the case will be 5 years down the road?

 

Not really, the follow-up is like.. a couple of comments afterwards in the same day. A lot, and I mean, a lot of publications just decided to completely ignore it.

[Bos_hybrid]

Do you really think that if, say, EA were to put out a Kickstarter for a game like this, it'd do as well? I am not sure.

I think it would depend on the game, and the team developing the game.

 

It would cause a stir, but if done right I could see an Ultima or Wing Commander getting the funding.

Do you think gamers would trust EA to assemble a good team to make an Ultima or Wing Commander worthy of the name? They're making an Ultima right now, and their public statements on the gameplay are cringe-worthy.

 

That's why I said done right. The minute gamers got a whiff of pay to play, consolitis/dumbing down/streamlining , it would be dead before trying. Also the minute they didn't deliver on their promises, that would be it for them and kickstarter.

[Lexx]

---

BTW, Urquhart supposedly posted an follow up to the comment made in the OP's link. (Can't seem to find the original source though.)

"I think they were trying, honestly, to be able to do something with us and they felt that was the easiest way to do it. They would then not need to go get budget approved and deal with the challenge of that," he wrote in a follow-up post. "What I don't think they did was to think about our side of it and what they were really asking."

 

EDIT: You can read Obsidian's comments here (just keep scrolling down for September 18th comments starting with "@Steven" for the initial comment and then scroll up to a comment addressed with "@fredgiblet" to see the comment I quoted above). To see it in context, you're going to have to look through the comments of the kickstarter page.

 

Please. He was obviously either contacted by the publisher after this story got featured on sites like Kotaku with an angry "you TOLD them what I SAID???" or figured he'd voluntarily do some light damage control before he got an angry statement like that. If I were CEO of a company I wouldn't be in a huge rush to burn bridges either. The forseeable future might not have them needing to use the services of said publisher, but who knows what the case will be 5 years down the road?

 

No he was not. The follow up comment came short after his first publisher-comment. News sites could have posted that one too- but they didn't because they didn't do research. They just took what people discussed on the forum and pressed the panic button.

 

Gaming "journalists" - probably the worst kind of journalist in the world.

 

Same with Notch from Mojang. He posts something on twitter and a second later the whole internet is abuzz and lives in unreal-world. Just lol.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Lexx

[Junai]

Makes me think of the IRS. Please give us the fruits of your labor sir, it's not in the constitution - but.. we wantz it!