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Project Eternity Composer: In-house or External

Music for Project Eternity   

638 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should compose the music for Project Eternity?

    • Justin Bell (In-house kickstarter video composer)
    • Mark Morgan
    • Jeremy Soule
    • Other external Composer
    • Whomever Obsidian chooses is fine


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It's just the 'r' sounds (?) in the vocals that I'm not digging, I think.

 

The choir isn't really the problem.

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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However, I don't think the comment on professionalism is warranted. Justin Bell is a professional musician since it's his job to compose music for PE regardless of one's subjective enjoyment of his work.

Sorry, I meant a "professional musician" with more talent than Justin Bell. Favorably someone with a degree in music and composition and not in sound design.

 

 

Really trying hard not to hurt any feelings, eh?

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http://janpospisil.daportfolio.com/ - my portfolio
http://janpospisil.blogspot.cz/ - my blog

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However, I don't think the comment on professionalism is warranted. Justin Bell is a professional musician since it's his job to compose music for PE regardless of one's subjective enjoyment of his work.

Sorry, I meant a "professional musician" with more talent than Justin Bell. Favorably someone with a degree in music and composition and not in sound design.

 

 

Really trying hard not to hurt any feelings, eh?

Yeah, well, if you tell somebody that they didn't do a good job, then feelings are going to be hurt. That is how it works, as sad as it is.

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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If Justin *is* the in-house composer, then of course, if he can do a good job (i.e., if so far the team has recognized his credit), he should be the main composer.

 

that doesn't mean, however, that he can't keep with the ambient music and the majority of the soundtrack and let another composer do the theme song, much like Mass Effect did with Clint Mansell for 2 tracks alone, just for that larger-than-life feeling.

 

a full-scaled orchestra is something that has no rival....

 

btw: i really like Soule's work in IWD.

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However, I don't think the comment on professionalism is warranted. Justin Bell is a professional musician since it's his job to compose music for PE regardless of one's subjective enjoyment of his work.

Sorry, I meant a "professional musician" with more talent than Justin Bell. Favorably someone with a degree in music and composition and not in sound design.
Yeah, except Justin has a degree in compositio

Apart from that he also has multiple years of experience scoring for tv and movies.

 

A short trailer is not a reason to demean him forever. There were better (no offense justin) composers that made bigger missteps. Not to mention it's easy to see how this could have gotten wrong. Among other things general direction that he was given and trying to evoke the first PE kickstarter video music. Which I imagine is why the first part doesn't mesh well with the second.

Edited by C2B

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However, I don't think the comment on professionalism is warranted. Justin Bell is a professional musician since it's his job to compose music for PE regardless of one's subjective enjoyment of his work.

Sorry, I meant a "professional musician" with more talent than Justin Bell. Favorably someone with a degree in music and composition and not in sound design.
Yeah, except Justin has a degree in compositio

Apart from that he also has multiple years of experience scoring for tv and movies.

 

A short trailer is not a reason to demean him forever. There were better (no offense justin) composers that made bigger missteps. Not to mention it's easy to see how this could have gotten wrong. Among other things general direction that he was given and trying to evoke the first PE kickstarter video music. Which I imagine is why the first part doesn't mesh well with the second.

Yeah, I just googled him, he does have a degree in music composition. Anyway, I guess you're right, it probably isn't wise to jump to conclusions.

 

I was not impressed by the music in the teaser and I'll just leave it at that. Obsidian should decide what they think is best.

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Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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However, I don't think the comment on professionalism is warranted. Justin Bell is a professional musician since it's his job to compose music for PE regardless of one's subjective enjoyment of his work.

Sorry, I meant a "professional musician" with more talent than Justin Bell. Favorably someone with a degree in music and composition and not in sound design.

 

 

Really trying hard not to hurt any feelings, eh?

Yeah, well, if you tell somebody that they didn't do a good job, then feelings are going to be hurt. That is how it works, as sad as it is.

 

 

I prefer the Kickstarter music to this trailer piece, mainly because I'm getting a bit tired of epic chorals. If you know music (ie have a musical education, are a musician, composer or a music buff etc.), you could try to give a critique (an even that would be a bit rude as nobody asked you).

If you don't like it, say you don't like it. Not that anyone cares, but that's ok, people have different taste. Saying (or implying) the composer is not talented is just a douchebag thing to do.

(I could go on into why that is, how talent is a really hard thing to pinpoint and how greatness often comes with age, experience and skill.)

Hey, it's just not very cool. Giving an honest opinion is not an excuse for going around being a **** for no reason.

Edited by Merlkir
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http://janpospisil.blogspot.cz/ - my blog

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I wasn't too impressed either. But it's only one piece of music so it's too early to judge really.

Yeah I was thinking the same, just to early. And we should not forget that it's one year till release, so there will be enough time for someone else to jump in, if at all necessary. 

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I wasn't too impressed either. But it's only one piece of music so it's too early to judge really.

I liked the choirs, but the instrumentation wasn't anything special.

 

I quote The Bishop from RPGCodex who can into classical better than me

 

I also preferred the Kickstarter piece to the trailer music.

 

Music in the trailer is fine. Composition is good, but arrangement is poor and like everything else in this trailer it simply lacks polishing.

Edited by Sensuki

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Saying (or implying) the composer is not talented is just a douchebag thing to do.

I never wrote that Justin isn't talented. I never implied that either.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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You said that he doesn't have enough talent to do his job, isn't a professional, and doesn't have the right qualifications.  I'm all for bluntness when it's warranted (and I think the trailer was tonally a bit too epic but the music was serviceable for that purpose), but there's a difference between constructive criticism and internet bullying.

 

Constructive: "I didn't like that music because it was a little flat.  Add some kazoo and a slide whistle to shake things up."

Unconstructive: "I didn't like that music.  The composer can't do his job."

 

Oh, and the classic "I'm an **** so people get things done" or in your words "Yeah, well, if you tell somebody that they didn't do a good job, then feelings are going to be hurt. That is how it works, as sad as it is." defense is a pretty ****ty way of communicating with people in real life as well as on the internet.  Give a list of flaws, show how they can be fixed, or don't offer such absolute criticism.

Edited by anameforobsidian
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Anyone else wanna cry me a river because the music in the teaser was not good? I'm all ears, go for it.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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I liked the trailer for what it was. Trailer music. I liked the choir as it hit some - for gaming - unusual harmonies. To clarify, I loved the beginning. 

Still, I do not care for overly orchestrated epic pieces, but it was alright.


Elan_song.gif

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Good conversation.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Some people love the music, others don't, it's to be expected.  Similar discussions were had over the kickstarter campaign music as well.  

 

That all said, I'll take everything you all have said into consideration, whether good or critical.  

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I liked the trailer for what it was. Trailer music. I liked the choir as it hit some - for gaming - unusual harmonies. To clarify, I loved the beginning. 

Still, I do not care for overly orchestrated epic pieces, but it was alright.

 

I liked the beginning too. The drum sound could have been a bit better, though (as in having more impact/depth, sounding more organic). I do like the dramatic orchestration style used in the later parts of the trailer music, I just think they could have been better. 

I'll try and describe what I didn't like about the short section after that where the trailer shows combat. FYI I cannot understand musical notes/theory. I am just a listener.

 

I enjoyed it up until about the 1 minute mark.

 

When the battle music starts, I can't help but get the impression that the PRAT is a bit off (Pace, Rhythm and Timing), I don't feel a sense of urgency, although that may not have been the intention. The mixing (positioning of the instruments) sounded a bit odd to me, I think that maybe the strings could have been a bit more forward in the mix, and maybe swapped to wih the brass section and been in the right channel rather than the left - I swapped my headphones over and I actually prefer listening to the track backwards. I notice the drums a lot better off to the side and the instrument placement feels more natural.

 

It does appear that the music was made specifically for the trailer though rather than being a piece taken from the game.

 

Are you intending to use that uhhh melody? that you came up with in the Kickstarter as a musical 'theme' for the game? as I noticed this trailer was based off that.

 

I like the use of the Bell at the start, signature sound for the surname :p

Edited by Sensuki
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Good conversation.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Some people love the music, others don't, it's to be expected.  Similar discussions were had over the kickstarter campaign music as well.  

 

That all said, I'll take everything you all have said into consideration, whether good or critical.  

I respect and appreciate your attitude, Justin.

 

It seems to me that in these kinds of conversations it is often forgotten that appreciating music is subjective; one man's trash is another man's treasure. I can't fathom a certain piece of music being inherently good or bad. I either like it or I don't, and I understand that others may like music that I don't and vice versa. So, I feel it'd be pointless for me to try to influence Justin in one direction or the other or convince others to like something they don't. I just hope that I like the end result :) Best of luck to you, Justin!

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The kickstarter video had more understated music, especially in its opening and as it progressed with them just talking about the game. The epic portions of that video and this trailer I just don't like at all. The former has a lot of flavor and I can see fitting with the world Obsidian has built, the latter really lacks that. The main themes for Planescape and Icewind Dale really had that down.

 

So far I really see Justin as having a style that would really fit the ambiance or down time in Eternity. Some bits remind me of the theme in Kuldahar.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y96Y2JE5F8

 

That works really well for a lot of sections of the game, but it obviously won't do much in the combat sections. I'm willing to reserve judgement, though I will say that if you aren't sure if you can handle the more "epic" stuff that there's no shame in asking for help scoring the game. Soul Reaver had a number of artists who worked on it, for example, and that soundtrack is incredible.

Edited by Wolfenbarg
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I like the choir part. It reminds me of Ash Lake from Dark Souls, which is my favorite track from the soundtrack. I wonder if the beginning was inspired by it.

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I like music that builds to a crescendo and has ups and downs in pacing over the course of the song (I also like choir bits). Thus *I* liked the trailer music and thought it was good. It fits the "game coming! get excited!" push of a trailer and seemed appropriate to me.  Does this mean I want soundtracks to have nothing but similar tunes/or all bombastic pacing? Of course not. And I don't expect P.E./Justin is going to do that.

 

More typically, there will be some pieces in the game/by any composer that one will love, some pieces one will like and some that one can take or leave. Judging someone's capability to make music one may personally like from a single song or two seems rather ... premature.

 

There's also the factor that (for me at least) many of my favorite songs became my favorite songs because of the memory I associate with them - what I was doing/experiencing at the time I heard them. A great movie scene. A fun combat moment in a game etc. If I had just heard them on the radio while driving to the store it wouldn't have stuck in my head to any degree, if you know what I mean. Some of my faves are songs I actually disliked at first until I listened to them over and over again. I try to stay open minded and not lock myself too much into a narrow list of "must-haves" when it comes to music.

 

Except country. I still haven't been able to make myself like more than a handful or two of country songs. :p

 

Anyway, from the earlier examples and now the trailer, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what Justin comes up with in the final soundtrack - even if I end up not liking every single track. :)

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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Good conversation.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Some people love the music, others don't, it's to be expected.  Similar discussions were had over the kickstarter campaign music as well.  

 

That all said, I'll take everything you all have said into consideration, whether good or critical.  

I respect and appreciate your attitude, Justin.

 

It seems to me that in these kinds of conversations it is often forgotten that appreciating music is subjective; one man's trash is another man's treasure. I can't fathom a certain piece of music being inherently good or bad. I either like it or I don't, and I understand that others may like music that I don't and vice versa. So, I feel it'd be pointless for me to try to influence Justin in one direction or the other or convince others to like something they don't. I just hope that I like the end result :) Best of luck to you, Justin!

 

 

Yes. I have to say that I have huge admiration for Justin's professionalism and grace under fire here. 

 

For whatever it's worth, the original kickstarter trailer music completely blew me away, and I find that the parts I enjoyed the most in the latest video are those that feel most directly like extrapolations from that first effort. Whether that's just familiarity and happy association at work, I don't know.

 

The choral section in the new trailer is interesting, with some surprising melodic choices and unusual harmonies. It very successfully evokes the feeling of a mysterious, alien, exotic, fantasy-world musical culture - which, I suspect, is kind of the point. And all of that makes it a little more challenging, a little more tricky to fasten on to, perhaps at first a little more distracting. But it soon resolves to the orchestral fireworks. 

 

I'm very happy. I think Justin is a great choice to soundtrack the game - he's clearly able to address a whole range of atmospheres. I think he's about as good as Sam Hulick at his best, and I think Sam Hulick is fast becoming one of the best in the business. All the same, Justin clearly can't make everybody happy all the time, but that - dare I say it - isn't his job.

Edited by stkaye

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Well, for the record, in spite of my general distate for orchestral music, I quite enjoyed the trailer music for what it was. The opening  chorus really have that western european feel to my ears.

 

Personally love the use of sound more than the music itself - again the bells and wind at the end - can't wait to ear more, especially in situ.

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I enjoyed the music in the trailer, especially the first minute. I'm not a huge fan of "epic" compositions (like what we get starting at about 0:58) in general as they tend to all blur together in my mind and end up feeling samey. In this case, however, that style fit perfectly. It is a teaser trailer, after all, and that sort of bombastic score is appropriate when you're trying to hype something up.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more pieces of Eternity's soundtrack. Keep up the good work Justin!

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I find it a hard piece to judge. The atmosphere is fine, but it doesn't seem well-structured. The repetitive movement seems to be some sort of theme, but it's a little too simple for that, and it also doesn't develop into anything better, because the "epic" part is kind of formless and generic. As part of a personal preference, so far I'm missing a sense of individual instruments or instrument sections, which I liked about the BG soundtracks, although it was probably entirely synthetic, and which also gave it some additional feeling of structure. But I suppose the structure was deliberate for the trailer.

Edited by MattH

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Really the only thing constructively negative I could say about it is that it wasn't the best type of music for a montage trailer, I don't think. If it had been a coherent, story intro/prologue-style trailer (maybe a cinematic? I only say that because that's a commonly seen thing, and not because I'm trying to say "PoE needs cinematics! 8D!"), it would've "fit" better with the visuals, if that makes any sense.

 

But, in isolation, it was pretty incredible. It wasn't your typical "latin choir singing about epic/holy struggles" music, but it still sparked a strong sense of eventfulness, almost like a "something is coming/happening/changing" feeling. Which was pretty apt for the first big teaser trailer reveal.

 

So... that's me reaching for not-purely-positive feedback. On top of purely positive feedback. :)


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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