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My weapon does nothing!

weapons immunities damage reduction poll

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141 replies to this topic

Poll: My weapon does nothing!!!! (527 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you want to need different weapons/damage types for different monsters?

  1. Yes! I LOVE needing to carry 15 different weapons on a single character! (145 votes [27.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.51%

  2. Maybe only for occasional special mobs they warn you about in advance. (145 votes [27.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.51%

  3. Voted Resistances are cool but no (or very few) flat-out immunities please. (212 votes [40.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.23%

  4. No. Just NO. (25 votes [4.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.74%

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#21
PsychoBlonde

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Your poll isn't very honest Psycho. You wouldn't need 15 weapons. But having different resistances adds depth to combat. It forces you to change tactics and changes up the combat a bit so you can't just smash through everything in the game easily.


Okay, if you haven't personally played a game where you wind up having to carry around 15+ weapons, that's fine. But you have NO PLACE to be criticizing my honesty. I play Dungeons and Dragons Online. You want me to list the weapons my characters carry around?

My monk/rogue, who is UNCHARACTERISTICALLY NARROW has:

+5 Metalline Flametouched Iron Handwraps of Improved Destruction. Breaks Silver, Byeshk, Adamantine, Cold Iron, and Good DR. Basically used for dealing with raid bosses who almost all have multiple DR types, usually Something + Good.
+4 Corruscating Handwraps of Disruption (undead beaters--do Light damage and Disruption)
Unstable Handwraps (break lawful AND chaotic DR)
Calomel-studded handwraps (dragon beater)
Grave Wrappings (my epic and evil set)
Scorching Wraps (breaks piercing DR)
+2 Banishing Handwraps of Stunning +10 (for dealing with outsiders)
+5 Metalline Handwraps of Smiting (construct beater, also breaks Silver, Adamantine, Cold Iron, and Byeshk DR)

I'm unusual because I got lucky on Metalline drops--many people have separate adamantine, cold iron, and silver sets. That, and because I use handwraps, I only need 1 weapon per set and not 2. I also don't have a slashing set because this particular build doesn't have enough wis to get Vorpal Strikes. I could carry kamas but they usually do less damage than just standard handwraps, even with the DR penalty.

Baldur's Gate wasn't too bad in this respect because it used the SECOND edition rules where Magic trumped everything (except arcane oozes). But, it didn't have DR--if you didn't have a +3 weapon on the mob that needed +3 or better to hit, you did NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER, whereas when enemies have dr 10/slash, if you do more than 10 damage you at least do SOMETHING.

Still, I'd rather not have the Insane Weapon List in this game if it can be avoided.

#22
andreisiadi

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Voted yes. Your list is missing a few things though, like different sets of armor, a ton of potions and that scroll/item that gives you deathward.

Edit: "Raid boss" in my D&D ? Oh, how the mighty have fallen... :banghead:

Edited by andreisiadi, 18 September 2012 - 01:35 PM.


#23
dlux

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But facing the horrible lich and realizing none of your weapons are capable of even scratching him is half the fun. Especially if the game then allows you to wipe the floor with him by different means.

I'm sure that the game will also have an easy mode... ^^

Miscommunication? I was agreeing you.

Doh, sorry. :facepalm:

I have to rest my eyes. ^^

#24
Shadenuat

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I play Dungeons and Dragons Online.

So what? What does some crappy MMO has to do with anything? Immunities are there in the system to make battle more tactical, preparation more interesting, and let DM reward players for planning ahead or punish for acting stupid. Single-player game can have decent encounters carefuly made for player's party compostion in mind. You are making a statement on a basis of things which do no exist yet.

Also, Obsidian making their own system, even if using D&D as inspiration.

Edited by Shadenuat, 18 September 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#25
sfg

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You are greatly exagerrating to make your point seems like it has more validity than it actually has. Neither of the Infinity Engine games required you to have so many different weapons. In fact, most (if not all) immunities were to non-magical weapons. Once you had a magical weapon you could use that, no need to switch. Also, if a creature is immune to fire it means that the extra fire damage the weapon deals doesn't count, not that you don't damage it at all. Maybe that's not good enough for you either? How about making all spells affect everybody too then! Can't be bothered to have a couple of different spells ready. Don't know how it's done in MMORPGs, but there's no reason to think they'd turn this into a singleplayer MMORPG.

Edited by sfg, 18 September 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#26
PsychoBlonde

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However sometimes in the IE games, I'd face monsters that had immunities and had no way to be able to have anything in my inventory to overcome the immunity.


That's kinda the point? Read lore, ask around, keep magical weapons, use spells?... Tactics, you know.


That's not "tactics". That's Strategy. Strategy consists of carrying around the 3 or 10 or 18 weapons you need to be able to affect every type of mob in the game. Tactics would be actually switching to that weapon at the appropriate time. The prep you do before the fights is strategy, not tactics. Tactics is what you do DURING the fight.

That pedantry aside, this situation is a large part of the reason why a really good party in BG2 contained 5 casters. I could never put up with it because I didn't want to pitch MInsc, so I frequently had 2 non-casters.

#27
Sarog

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Give me a packmule to carry all my backup weapons around on, and I'll sell the packmule to buy more backup weapons.

#28
PsychoBlonde

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You are making a statement on a basis of things which do no exist yet.

Also, Obsidian making their own system, even if using D&D as inspiration.


I know. That's why I'm making a SUGGESTION that they NOT COPY this aspect of D&D which got completely out of control with 3rd edition. Heroes shouldn't carry around a golf bag stuffed with swords.

And making suggestions inherently means talking "about things that don't exist yet". It'd be a little weird to make suggestions about stuff that's ALREADY DONE and CAN'T BE CHANGED.

#29
Troller

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wow this poll isnt biased towards no resistance and immunities at all :geek:
I`m sure the devs will ignore this anyway, they are trying to make an RPG here, not Call of Duty Eternity

#30
Tauron

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Let there be resitances that mitigate damage, rather than immunities. If there are immunities, let them make sense...no abstract sense.

Smart immunities like Stone Golem is immune or heavily resistant to arrows, daggers, swords, makes sense. But Golem is supposed to be always epic encounter.
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#31
Shadenuat

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That pedantry aside, this situation is a large part of the reason why a really good party in BG2 contained 5 casters.

You did't figure out that only other thing you need to kill any creature in the game is enchanted mace? :huh:

I mean, you get like hundred of fire or acid arrows every time you meet a troll, and same amount of basic weapons and Elminster's books for magical elementals. BG2 basically holded your hand there.

Edited by Shadenuat, 18 September 2012 - 01:48 PM.

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#32
TwinkieGorilla

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If you're going to make a poll you should try to construct it in a way which does not present your own glaringly obvious personal bias.

That said, I voted "yes", since I do enjoy using strategy in RPG combat.
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#33
Tlantl

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You are greatly exagerrating to make your point seems like it has more validity than it actually has. Neither of the Infinity Engine games required you to have so many different weapons. In fact, most (if not all) immunities were to non-magical weapons. Once you had a magical weapon you could use that, no need to switch. Also, if a creature is immune to fire it means that the extra fire damage the weapon deals doesn't count, not that you don't damage it at all. Maybe that's not good enough for you either? How about making all spells affect everybody too then! Can't be bothered to have a couple of different spells ready. Don't know how it's done in MMORPGs, but there's no reason to think they'd turn this into a singleplayer MMORPG.


This is a trend in D&D games and since more than half of the games ie engine games are D&D based there is reason to be concerned. I guess DDO has taken it a bit farther than NWN 2 and PnP D&D but it is a concern.

The last Obsidian games I played ( still play) are FO:NV and NWN 2 so I can only go by those games. one of them does have this issue the other does not.

From what I've heard, the Devs aren't enamored of D&D style rules so I would imagine that they won't be so inclined toward a lot of immunities or resistances but I'm not a mind reader and I do want to avoid silver axiomatic flaming greatswords if I can.

#34
Vin

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I've never had a problem with monsters or bosses having immunity to cold/fire/whatever. It's there -- and sometimes it just springs itself on you and you may want to bang your head on a wall -- but I've never seen it as something that necessarily needs to be fixed.
Because a vampire is going to be mostly immune to normal weapons. They're kinda dead, y'know.
A creature made of elemental fire isn't going to care about your fun Burning Hands trick. That's sort of self-explanatory.
That's how it goes, on and on down the list. Ridiculous amounts of immunity are ridiculous. But for the most part, it's something that should be expected.

#35
l3loodangel

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You've never played DDO, I take it. I have characters with all of those weapons + specific bane and debuffing weapons for use against specific bosses. Not to mention things like swap gear that grants specific debuffs. People will boot you out of groups if they find out you don't know what weapons work on what mobs.


No darling I did not. You know that this is not a MMO, right? In games made by Bio, Black Isle and Obsidian, you never needed large quantity of weapons. There were only few instance when you really needed them, and if you did not you were in trouble.It was in NWN ( infested lycantropes in Luskan) and BG2 (magic vs golems). And that's about it as much as I can remember.

Edited by l3loodangel, 18 September 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#36
Continuity

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Developing new combat strategies when you hit a wall in the IE games were one of the best part of those games. If anything, move further in that direction.

edit: that direction being more ways to force the player to think, and perhaps tackle the combat encounter from another angle.

Edited by Continuity, 18 September 2012 - 01:56 PM.

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#37
Ashram

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As long as it is done in moderation and with purpose. As some have said...in a combat against a Lich...or perhaps battling with a Dragon...or a powerful construct of sorts. Its a great mechanic, but carrying umpteen weapons can be tedious at times. Though maybe the fun is in the collecting. Honestly I am on the fence with this one.

#38
Hoverdog

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Facing an opponent that forces you to change tactics drastically is good.
Having a fight in which you have to actually think is fine.
Brickwall foes that make you flee in panic hastily regroup is great.

The harder the battle, the more rewarding the experience - when you finally beat that damned liche, or whatever.
I'm all in for immunities.
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#39
Continuity

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As long as it is done in moderation and with purpose. As some have said...in a combat against a Lich...or perhaps battling with a Dragon...or a powerful construct of sorts. Its a great mechanic, but carrying umpteen weapons can be tedious at times. Though maybe the fun is in the collecting. Honestly I am on the fence with this one.


That's a strawman though and the whole poll is too. You never had to carry that many weapons in any IE game. About the only examples I can come up with are trolls, golems and the occasional fight where you needed +3 weapons or higher to hit.

Edited by Continuity, 18 September 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#40
teknoman2

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resistances and immunities are fine, as long as they dont get too specific. its fine if an enemy can only be hit by magical weapons or if he is immune to arrows and you need to use melee, or even if he is immune to a certain type of magic (cant very well expect a fireball to hurt a fire elemental now can you?). but its a big no if you get something like "this one can only be hurt by this or that particular type of weapon" (ie a mace or a spear) or "this enemy is immune to all damage except ice arrows" and so on





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