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Do people want this game to be as "Hardcore" as 90's RPGs?

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I've noticed lots of people here getting boners over the thought of being sadistically punished by the game mechanics of old. I understand and endorse the concept of making the player think more and do more within their game; something only the older games provided. But i do think that bringing back some of the unnecessarily tedious and frankly outdated game mechanics of the 90's would only be a detriment to the game.

 

Accept it or not, but it's factual that many game mechanics and gameplay elements have been improved since the 90's. Yes, many have been stripped of complexity, but it's foolish to say that nothing has improved.

 

So my question is: Do you want a carbon copy the "hardcore" game mechanics of the 90's, or do you want the more complex elements mixed with some modern mechanics and gameplay elements?

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I want it to be MORE hardcore.

 

As in harder with greater complexities involved.

 

 

 

Regarding systems that didn't really work and were annoying more than anything (but can be improved). That's an entirly different question.

Edited by C2B
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bringing back some of the unnecessarily tedious and frankly outdated game mechanics of the 90's

 

many game mechanics and gameplay elements have been improved since the 90's. Yes, many have been stripped of complexity

 

"hardcore" game mechanics of the 90's, or do you want the more complex elements mixed with some modern mechanics and gameplay elements?

 

I'm sorry, but could you be more specific? What mechanics and gameplay elements are you talking about?

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Do you have specifics? This reads as a very general statement, nothing concrete, and very subjective. What was tedious to you? What exactly is outdated? Also, the main IE games quoted in the Kickstarter were "hardcore" in very different ways. I'm guessing you're only interested in the combat side?


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I just want dead-is-dead to be a realistic playstyle without it being the most frustrating **** ever.

 

New Vegas was fine for this, imo. It was overall easy, but had areas of spike difficulty that kept you on your feet. Personally I get pretty sick of the types of games that give you JUST enough to survive, because usually it makes the first playthrough frustrating, then later you master it and there's just no way you'll die. Plus in my experience, some games that give you "just enough" can actually be somewhat limiting to playstyle choice.


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The Infinity Engine games? Honestly, they were never all that hard or 'hardcore'. The Fallouts were a lot nastier to a new player, to say nothing of most early 90's or 80's RPGs.

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Somewhat. I would like to see it be more like them than the RPGs of today.

 

However, I hate the final boss fights of many IE games. Maybe I was too young to really understand them, but I hate resorting to cheese. And if I feel that cheese is a more appropriate strategy than the strategies I've been using the entire game prior, then I feel something is broken.

 

I think the strategy I heard for Sarevok was to try to lure his lieutenants one-by-one, then do as many summons as possible while plucking away at range. Thankfully PS:T, Fallout, and Arcanum let me talk to final bad guy to death, so I didn't have to deal with it. I think the worst offenders were probably the Bioware titles, so I'm hopeful.


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I want it to be 'hardcore', just in its own way. The general level of 'hardcoreness' in IE games, as Infinitron says, was never that onerous. But that doesn't mean replicating all the features, it's not a linear thing.

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I also want it to more hardcore generally speaking. I think there are many things from older games (before the late 90s RPGs) that could make a return personally.

 

More hardcore but with more wrinkles smoothed out basically, and with a hopefully better rules system.


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90's RPG's weren't that "hardcore", if you want that you're looking for late 80's and early 90's, like Dungeons & Dragons computer games made by SSI, the Wizardries and Ultimas, which in most cases are almost impossible to finish without cluebooks or cheats.

 

I don't mean to be hurr durr im hardkore, but the IE games are easy to pick up and play, PST probably the least because it's hard to adjust to a game which is like 80% talking and the rest combat, rather than the other way around. Also Icewind Dale traps alot of new players because you have to create 6 characters from scratch using D&D rules, but once you're actually in the game it's basically standard fare hack and slash in the forgotten realms

Edited by Crosmando

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Nah. I don't want:

 

- impossibly hard boss fights that'd crush your soul even after you'd find everything else a walk in the park.

- to remember or write down instructions, I want the important bits automatically in my journal (or whatever)

- no team members dying (that just meant a reload, even back then)

- some stupid baldurs gate/nwn2 inventory system with 100 slots of 5x5 pixel images you can't even see

- to spend 30 minutes after a fight applying ointments and minor cure spells to get the party back to speed

 

...or any of the other old crap, I just what the good stuff.

 

But as far as difficulty goes, please include a "crazy masochist exteme hardcore ironman" setting where you'll only have 1 hitpoint,

will die of a whisper and your computer will reformat if you do. Because even then someone will complain it's too crazy easy.

Edited by Jarmo
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Overall i think rpg's have lost alot in the new "generation". Depth, complexity, tactical are all things that have been reduced, removed or simply ignored for a more "streamlined" and "action/adventure" type of gameplay do i want this to be a hardcore rpg... With depth, complexity, tactical? hell yes. Now not everything is "bad"... Ui's are one thing for example that i dont want returned in my opinion PC centric ui's have been improved overall. But from gameplay? No.

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The more hardcore, the better. And please include something like Heart of Fury mode.

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I would not consider RPGs from the 90's to be hardcore because they have good game mechanics - I consider them to be GOOD RPGs! :yes:

 

The problem nowadays is that many RPGs are dumbed down because the publishers want to make more money. They think that if a game also caters to to 8 year olds for example, then they will make more money - and they are right.

 

The only thing that a publisher really cares about is making money - nothing else. And if a publisher can make even a single extra dollar by dumbing the game down, then you can bet your ass that they will do it.

 

But now we have KICKSTARTER! YES! :dancing:

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For some nice "hardcore", look for the first couple "Realms of Arkania" games (or even the SSI gold box)...Now that was some hardcore stuff :D.

 

I just want a complex, mature (and for me, it doesn't necessarily mean "rape", "same sex romances" and whatnot) environment with a UI that, while "2012 looking" does retain some elements from the '90s games, like inventory management and verbose character sheets, not some watered down console looking appearance.


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I want this game to kick my ass so hard I would cry and dissapoint in myself and my RPG life.

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Depends on the definition of hardcore. I would like to see AI that isn't stupid, that used tactics and actually react when you toss a fireball and take out half of their forces just outside of their "visual range." Skyrim is not perfect, but I do like to see reactions from NPCs that make some sense with baddies trying to hunt you down or actually try to run away if you are trashing them.

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I'd prefer a difficulty mode where the only way to save is Resident Evil style, every inn has a "Journal Scroll" which acts like the Typewriter, and you can find "Ink Pots" in the world, each one gives you a single save. But they are rather rare.

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I want a tactical and challenging RP with the tools and mechanics we have today.

 

There is no reason to include modern game mechanics and still make it challenging. But most people seem to fail here in my opinion.

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I want the game mechanics to, at the very least, stay true to the IE games. If that's too hardcore (a perception which is, frankly, a bit of a joke), then this project wouldn't have been funded.

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Yes, I want an old-school, hardcore RPG reminiscent of the classics. I do not want anything dumbed-down to reach a 'wider' audience -- there are alot of those already available. For those seeking a more modern (clickfest) with shiny graphics and a wheel to express your 'emotions', then you won't have too long to wait for DA3 (and they'll even tack on MP for you too so you can have a 'hoarde' mode, yeahhhh.......).

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Intelligently hard...

Not every fight should be able to kill our party on pure dumb luck on the part of the AI, but death should be lurking near.

But going around on the main roads should not decimate any decent travelling merchant party unless the setting calls for it.

Ressources should have a meaningful cost, using drugs/potions should have one too (if not aftereffects, at least a locking timer).

Selling a full plate mail in adequate state for the price of a night in a small town inn is not meaningful.

Useful combination of talents and skills of the party should be noticeable.

Hardcore must be challenging but fun, not simply tedious.

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For me, there's something timeless about older videogames with harsher rules. The idea of "taking cover behind this rock to recover hp after you've been shot", for example, has never interested me and likely never will, because I simply don't see how it can be fun. Give me some medkits, make me have to use them wisely. Make me have to play smart to get by with what I have, or risk dying and/or losing my progress.

 

I'm fine with them revamping certain elements so long as it truely is for the better. The resting mechanic can definitely use some work, as the old IE games fell into a "Fight, rest" cycle, and the only real downfall for that was potentially being attacked when you rested... and pretty much leads to encounters having to be designed with the idea that you're at full strength. Death should definitely have a cost or side effect, but a permanent death effect? Nah, no thanks.

 

So yes, I do want to see the game be "hardcore". I want the game to make me play smart, to make me use my special abilities, items, and spells wisely. I want the game to be difficult, and get more difficult or change as I take longer to do things, because that way the game can be a truely rewarding experience to complete.

Edited by Odarbi

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I would like to see BGII Tactics/Ascension level difficulty. After playing through the game a couple times I quickly learned all the cheese I possibly could and those mods took that away from me and made the game alot more enjoyable as my next playthroughs were challenging and rewarding.

 

Make the difficulty slider that doesn't just beef up enemy HP and double their damage. If we increase the difficulty, make the enemies smarter, use better tactics and have a wider array of abilities.

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That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

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