Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Mature themes you'd like to see in the game

mature themes dialogue philosophy

  • Please log in to reply
152 replies to this topic

#41
metiman

metiman

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 492 posts
I think some of you have to actually look up the word mature. It doesn't seem to mean what you think it means and frankly it doesn't apply particularly well to anything involving a computer game. I do remember even when I was young that kids liked to use the word far more than adults. Kids would say things like "Oh. That is sooo mature." in a sarcastic way. But just by saying things like that they are revealing themselves to be children because only children talked like that. Maturity is something that children idealize, but to adults, at least adults who aren't parents, it isn't a particularly useful word in daily life. And most adults don't spend a lot of time thinking about whether a thing/person is 'mature' or not.

Generally speaking children do not engage in things like rape or necrophilia or torture or genocide. Those are generally adult pursuits. As such they are certainly just as 'mature' as any other kind of activity that adults engage in. Sex is often considered to be an adult activity, but I think teenagers are way more obsessed with it than adults. So I dont really consider sex to be a particularly mature subject.

I think a better word for what some people seem to be talking about is seriousness or thoughtfulness. A story that takes itself seriously and/or ponders the nature of things in a serious way as PS:T did at least to some extent. It doesn't have to aim at any particular demographic. I was in my early thirties when PS:T came out and at that time I think I appreciated the dark themes of loss and death etc more than I would have as a teenager if only because by that time I had had experiences which sort of resonated with those themes. Even so I would have absolutely adored that game as a teenager as well just because I was always the kind of person that would have appreciated it. It doesn't matter whether you are 14 or 40. You just have to be the kind of person that likes to think about things seriously. A ponderer. If anything I was much more that way as a teenager than I am now. Most people are that way. They grow out of things like philosophy usually by their late 20s to early 30s.
  • FlintlockJazz, Continuity, Mabster and 1 other like this

#42
aluminiumtrioxid

aluminiumtrioxid

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1498 posts

The other, more secure way is to be branded by the gameworld's racists as "xenos lover", and be subject to harrassment because of your beliefs. (Actually, there could be an otherwise entirely likeable but strongly racist NPC [hard to pull off that one, but I have trust in the writing team's skills], who refuses to help you if you openly support the ones he has prejudices against.)

A possible problem with such "begot" character is that, while he may be good at one-off occasion as a non-companion NPC, for a companion, he doesn't have a room for character development.


I imagined him/her as a somewhat distant, yet important and powerful mentor type of character.

#43
septembervirgin

septembervirgin

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 326 posts
  • Location:California
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I've found that family portrayal is usually not done well in immature CRPG. If this game is to last, we might see several generations of the same family proliferate through a region. A character with skill to do so might be able to trace family histories (and so also might books about families be kept by these families). Also, an actual family usually doesn't treat their members with distaste -- disagreements don't occur in the way they're usually portrayed to occur. Adopted family members are usually treated to pity and gentleness, but adopted family is usually where "disobedience" and unspoken disagreement occurs, more so when the adopted family member is from adopted by invaders to that person's city or is enslaved through force. While we do not need to see families being all homey and domestic, it might be prudent to avoid the overwrought themes of orphans and runaways. If someone is adventuring away from home, it's usually because they see themselves as capable and cautious enough to survive, it's not because they were kidnapped by doppelgangers, to be rescued and raised by an enslaved blink-dog princess and an gray ooze psionicist.

One mature element I've noticed missing is pastoral moments. The young usually don't want for quiet moments in a computer game where they can move their action figures through a beautiful scene, unless that beautiful scene is en route a battle. There should be lovely places where one can just "live a sim life" or "play with dolls" so to speak. Such play finds dissonance when characters complain about being left standing around or wanting to fight something. Also, wandering monsters are ruinous to such moments. Soothing or gloomy music is useful for enhancing quiet moments, with an animated computer screen image which can also be useful as a portrait to glance at while doing house-hold chores.


A further mature theme might be the inclusion of surrender and retreat as viable options for both the NPC and the player. In chivalric romances (and other heroic myths) sometimes a combatant can sue for ransom, which is considered an honorable surrender, whereby a combatant or combatants permit their own capture to be ransomed by family, lord, church, or the city. This result of combat isn't outside history too. It would be seen as dishonorable (although sometimes occurred) that a combatant would claim they wished to surrender and then attack after capture; also false accusations can occur whereby a person is accused of doing such a thing, and punishments did exist if a vassal of a lord falsely surrendered to an enemy and then slew the enemy while living in captivity (and enjoying what hospitality could be afforded). It would be insipid to think that people always fight to the death or always seek an opponent's demise. More often, one seeks the enemy's surrender and PAYMENT (sometimes just in the arms and armor of the captive). If this is a part of the game, the Player Character house might have a small dungeon of its own -- and dungeons weren't always uncomfortable places. Alternately, captives could be herded to a friendly lord or knight (or priest) and sold to them for a third or quarter of the offered (or potential) ransom. People didn't run around killing everyone and stealing from homes, not in the more interesting legends even.
  • JFS and Uncanny Danny like this

#44
Gurkog

Gurkog

    Tactical Response Unit of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 242 posts
  • Location:Oregon farmlands
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
@septembervirgin

The mature part of a game is the consequences to the players choice. An immature view on sex, violence, power, wealth, etc... does not take into consideration the related risks and benefits beyond instant gratification. Consequences are usually shallow and immediate following a player's actions, but rarely incorporate long-term effects on the game world. Which is why in TES games you can steal everything and murder just about everyone without much effect beyond less clutter seen around town and fewer NPCs to stare at you and make repetitive statements as you walk by. They need to take the butterfly effect to a higher level than knee-jerk reactions to make the world feel more mature and compelling.
  • Sensuki likes this

#45
vattghern

vattghern

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • Location:Rivia
games with mature themes: pst, motb, witcher

2 out of 3 were made by obsidian so i think they know what theyre doing, no worries there

#46
Stevenaap

Stevenaap

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 15 posts
-Gender equality/politics

Honestly though, I care more about how well themes are explored than specifically which ones.
IMO lately mature themes have become some sort of buzzword, but instead of actually exploring said themes games just pay lipservice to them.
'Lookit there's the whores, slavery and child labor.. voila mature themes' add some lame trolley problems and you've got your 'moral choices'.

Say what you will about DA2, but it did actually explored some very 'mature' (whatever that means) themes with varying success.
The Qunari culture was very well explored with the Arishok, examining the PC's actions from a completely different moral frame of reference without resorting to awful good/evil tropes. Also the blood magic theme, even though it was rather ham-fisted and handled rather poorly toward the end, offered the PC's lots of moral dilemma's which were hard to into a classic black/white morality.
  • aluminiumtrioxid likes this

#47
Jiraboas

Jiraboas

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 41 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Altough i am an a programmer i do love philosophy, politics and social themes.

I want to see more of it in a game like Project Eternity.

Thats on of the major points i loved in Planescape: Torment. The Quest for an old philosopher question, was really exiting. I want to see more of this!

And i want rassism in the game, but not this "elves dont like dwarves"-nonsense please ;)


kind regard,

Jira

Edited by Jiraboas, 18 September 2012 - 01:17 AM.


#48
Longknife

Longknife

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 996 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Abortion in the Medieval Age? Actually, it's more likely to be deserting new born babies considering medical technologies at that time. That said, while some people seem to think their own views are universal but ethical views can be different depending on time and place.


There's also a failure to see that abortion as a political hot topic isn't because the debate itself is deep and intriguing, but because it's a cheap shot for a bad politician. It gives them a way to say "Now my foreign policy may suck in every way imaginable when compared to my opponent and he probably is 100% superior to me in that regard, and no I don't have any good justification for my moronic plan, BUT MY OPPONENT THINKS THIS ABOUT ABORTION!!!"

Bam, just like that you've swayed a decent % of people to vote for you despite obvious shortcomings, simply because abortion is something enough people are passionate enough about that they're willing to base their entire (or at least a large portion of) vote on it. It's not because the topic is actually interesting or super relevant, it's because it's polarizing and it rakes in easy votes.

For a video game to do this? That's just asking for Project Eternity to polarize half their audience...


I've found that family portrayal is usually not done well in immature CRPG. If this game is to last, we might see several generations of the same family proliferate through a region. A character with skill to do so might be able to trace family histories (and so also might books about families be kept by these families). Also, an actual family usually doesn't treat their members with distaste -- disagreements don't occur in the way they're usually portrayed to occur. Adopted family members are usually treated to pity and gentleness, but adopted family is usually where "disobedience" and unspoken disagreement occurs, more so when the adopted family member is from adopted by invaders to that person's city or is enslaved through force. While we do not need to see families being all homey and domestic, it might be prudent to avoid the overwrought themes of orphans and runaways. If someone is adventuring away from home, it's usually because they see themselves as capable and cautious enough to survive, it's not because they were kidnapped by doppelgangers, to be rescued and raised by an enslaved blink-dog princess and an gray ooze psionicist.

One mature element I've noticed missing is pastoral moments. The young usually don't want for quiet moments in a computer game where they can move their action figures through a beautiful scene, unless that beautiful scene is en route a battle. There should be lovely places where one can just "live a sim life" or "play with dolls" so to speak. Such play finds dissonance when characters complain about being left standing around or wanting to fight something. Also, wandering monsters are ruinous to such moments. Soothing or gloomy music is useful for enhancing quiet moments, with an animated computer screen image which can also be useful as a portrait to glance at while doing house-hold chores.


A further mature theme might be the inclusion of surrender and retreat as viable options for both the NPC and the player. In chivalric romances (and other heroic myths) sometimes a combatant can sue for ransom, which is considered an honorable surrender, whereby a combatant or combatants permit their own capture to be ransomed by family, lord, church, or the city. This result of combat isn't outside history too. It would be seen as dishonorable (although sometimes occurred) that a combatant would claim they wished to surrender and then attack after capture; also false accusations can occur whereby a person is accused of doing such a thing, and punishments did exist if a vassal of a lord falsely surrendered to an enemy and then slew the enemy while living in captivity (and enjoying what hospitality could be afforded). It would be insipid to think that people always fight to the death or always seek an opponent's demise. More often, one seeks the enemy's surrender and PAYMENT (sometimes just in the arms and armor of the captive). If this is a part of the game, the Player Character house might have a small dungeon of its own -- and dungeons weren't always uncomfortable places. Alternately, captives could be herded to a friendly lord or knight (or priest) and sold to them for a third or quarter of the offered (or potential) ransom. People didn't run around killing everyone and stealing from homes, not in the more interesting legends even.



These are good ideas, imo. The second one depends heavily on delivery (could be horrible if done wrong) and of course they all depend heavily on delivery, but they provide interesting directions nonetheless. Admittedly though I think I'm coming up with drastically different thoughts from them though. I try to look at things and analyze their basic theme personally though, and while I think I may have different ideas, I think the underlying theme between your ideas and the ideas I get from reading your post, are more or less similar.

The first for example, to me, could be more of a general question of love. What does it mean to be a family, what does it mean to care for a family (responsibility of a family), where's the line between family and "family," (one that's blood-related but cares for you poorly, as a generic example) etc etc.

The third seems to be about challenging societies notions of right and wrong (using a cultural custom of honorable ransom to deceive and kill an enemy, thus securing an escape and safety for your party), OR justifying them, acknowledging the wisdom in them and respecting their "authority." (showing how a lack of such social norms can lead to chaos and violence, sorta like how Lonesome Road briefly touched on the importance and meaning of "kill no courier")

All of those seem interesting to me, regardless of which way you choose to look at them.

Edited by Longknife, 18 September 2012 - 01:22 AM.


#49
Starwars

Starwars

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3219 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
What kind of themes will have to depend on the setting itself which we know little about. I don't realy have a point-list of things I would to see in the game, the struggles and themes would have to come as a result of the setting.
But yeah, this is something that I think Obsidian will do well regardless. Josh seems to be really good at treating things maturely and without all the "look at us, we're spectacular because we're dealing with THIS theme". The way religion was used in Honest Hearts for example was fantastic, very understated and natural.

But yeah, I guess one thing I would like to see is approaching all characters and factions without any alignment meter in the back of their heads. Just flat out go for different viewpoints and try to rationalize them as best as they can.
  • BaronVonChateau likes this

#50
war:head

war:head

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Steam:-warhead-3Z-
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Mature themes I'd like to see explored in this RPG:
  • Sacrifice of a party member for the 'greater good' (being sacrificed or sacrificing themselves)
  • Killing an innocent NPC to (buy time to) solve a situation and the emotional consequences within the party
  • Party members' character development due to abduction and torture (PTSD) - edit: Forgot to mention possible tie-ins with romantic relationships
  • Party members' character development due to general combat, war and what they experience (PTSD) - edit: Forgot to mention possible tie-ins with romantic relationships
  • Mercy as an option in key moments vs. an opponent and the consequences (both good and bad)
  • Torture as an option to achieve a goal/gain necessary information and the consequences within the party as well as the world (creating a tempting option for the player that takes strength of character to refuse)

Edited by war:head, 18 September 2012 - 02:16 AM.


#51
Longknife

Longknife

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 996 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

  • Mercy as an option in key moments vs. an opponent and the consequences (both good and bad)



Just wanted to jump in....

Not disagreeing with you, but when we're talking about main themes of the game, like the "moral" of the game that defines much of the story, I think it's good they have a stance with it, no?

What I mean is, IF mercy were a main theme and a main topic of the game, I wouldn't want the game to simply say "sometimes mercy is good, sometimes mercy is bad!" No ****, game? Gee thanks. Instead, I'd rather see the game take a stance on the matter, perhaps dare to say that showing mercy is stupid, or that one should always show mercy no matter the cost. OR do a mix of them where 99% of the time, mercy gets you and your party in trouble, perhaps to the point where a party member is willing to ditch you for being repeatedly stupid about this, BUT you are also solely responsible for converting a man to "the good side" who later goes on to help many people.

When the game takes a stance on such issues, it's thought provoking whether we agree or disagree. If it said "mercy will get you killed" then that's a very pragmatic view with truths to it that'll ultimately spark debate and thought amongst those who disagree. If it does a mix like what I mentioned above, then it's also thought-provoking and raises the question of "was it worth it" instead.

I'd just rather not see them going out of their way to accomidate both sides of each issue equally. Treating both sides of an issue equally just feels incredibly disingenuous.

#52
Continuity

Continuity

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 58 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
I would like to see some dialectal materialism in the game. If it's a feudal society, then the relationships between the nobles, the prince, the bourgeoisie, the clerics and the peasantry would probably make for some good intrigue in a CRPG.

#53
BaronVonChateau

BaronVonChateau

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
There is a dangerous and sometimes empty trend which consists of systematically including matures theme in a RPG. As if blood, sex, moral grey areas, political intrigues and various depictions of social anguish were sufficient to bring a game into the realm of TRUE COMPELLING AND GRITTY™ STORIES. Nowadays, these are regularly vaunted in interviews, sold as features as if their inclusion alone was sufficient to tell a good story. Maturity is more a matter of writing quality than topic selection.
  • dknight99, Super Grover, JFS and 1 other like this

#54
Wombat

Wombat

    Obsidian Order's Mysterious Stranger

  • Members
  • 1050 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

I imagined him/her as a somewhat distant, yet important and powerful mentor type of character.

In that case, I shouldn't expect myself to be able to get into your imagination. Just forget about it.

There's also a failure to see that abortion as a political hot topic isn't because the debate itself is deep and intriguing, but because it's a cheap shot for a bad politician. It gives them a way to say "Now my foreign policy may suck in every way imaginable when compared to my opponent and he probably is 100% superior to me in that regard, and no I don't have any good justification for my moronic plan, BUT MY OPPONENT THINKS THIS ABOUT ABORTION!!!"

Well, these typical abortion argument seems to be quite modern chirstian argument to me, and, of couse, such thing can be utlized as political tact. However, I don't think these people has ever imagined how these things can appear to other cultures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

#55
Cryticus

Cryticus

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 119 posts
I just want a good story , not a mature story, not a deep story, not a story that causes you to think about life.When I will turn off computer after playing it for hour or two, I want to think wow this is awesome I want to know what heppens next, and this dousn't need to have gritty storys and making this a session of FATAL.
Really fantasy ghetto at its finest , I don't play fantasy game, I play deep political intrigue.
That being said I dont mind if this story will talk about something deep but it must be part of the story and not just thrown in to make game "mature" like Dragon age origins , where discrimination of elves is shown only in one place in game (two if you chouse city elf origin) and it feels somewhat like it was thrown there just to show that this dark fantasy and not some silly little kids tolkien

#56
Entropious

Entropious

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 144 posts
  • Location:Denmark
Truth be told, I would not so much like to see more and more pseudo-mature themes introcued, as giving the game a deeper, intellectual polish. I truly hope that Chris Avellone will once again introduce heavy doses of philosophy, even more so that he did within Planescape: Torment. Of course, some may argue that such an approach wouldn't be realistic when dealing with a fantasy setting of "sword and sorcery", but please recall some basic facts.
If the universe is shaped more towards the Middle Ages, then both philosophy and theology where at the center of any public discourse, not necessarily just amongst the upper echelons of society. The same can be said of Antiquity, although they in turn focused more on philosophy and metaphysics. I remember a recount made by an old monk visiting Constantinople in the 11th Century. The poor fellow was complaining that he couldn't even visist the fish market without having to oberver debates on deep religious dogma. So, please keep in mind that, although the societies presented within fantasy settings may be simple in terms of technology, when it comes to their intellectual lives, especially interactions, they should be given much more thought than your usual "M'lord, I be a dumb peasant. Now kill them orcs!"
  • metiman and Parallax like this

#57
war:head

war:head

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Steam:-warhead-3Z-
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

  • Mercy as an option in key moments vs. an opponent and the consequences (both good and bad)



Just wanted to jump in....

Not disagreeing with you, but when we're talking about main themes of the game, like the "moral" of the game that defines much of the story, I think it's good they have a stance with it, no?

What I mean is, IF mercy were a main theme and a main topic of the game, I wouldn't want the game to simply say "sometimes mercy is good, sometimes mercy is bad!" No ****, game? Gee thanks. Instead, I'd rather see the game take a stance on the matter, perhaps dare to say that showing mercy is stupid, or that one should always show mercy no matter the cost. OR do a mix of them where 99% of the time, mercy gets you and your party in trouble, perhaps to the point where a party member is willing to ditch you for being repeatedly stupid about this, BUT you are also solely responsible for converting a man to "the good side" who later goes on to help many people.

When the game takes a stance on such issues, it's thought provoking whether we agree or disagree. If it said "mercy will get you killed" then that's a very pragmatic view with truths to it that'll ultimately spark debate and thought amongst those who disagree. If it does a mix like what I mentioned above, then it's also thought-provoking and raises the question of "was it worth it" instead.

I don't really see it that way, mainly because it's not how things work. There is no black and white.
Besides, taking a stance on mercy either way makes the whole thing redundant as a gameplay mechanic. If 'mercy gets you killed', you'll always go for the kill, because who'd deliberately choose the other way? Might as well leave the whole decision out of the game then.
Part of such a decision is to not know exactly what the long-term outcome will be. Let an opponent live and they might surprise you by returning the favor one day. Or they turn out to be the one killing one of your party members.
Of course for this to work, the NPCs have to be deep characters that allow players to have a basic idea of their character while still being able to surprise.

After all, we don't want this to be another bioware-style system where it is apparent what is going to happen from the getgo, right? I can only think of one decision in the entire ME and DA series where doing 'the good thing' turned out to be wrong. And that involved a minor NPC never to be seen again in ME2.

#58
Giantevilhead

Giantevilhead

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 392 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
I would say that there are some broad themes that a lot of different ideas could fall under.

Idealism vs. Pragmatism - Are you willing to sacrifice your principles for a greater good?

Your army conquered an enemy stronghold. You don't have enough food and water for both your own troops and enemies you've captured. What do you do with the POW's? Do you dispatch a group of soldiers to transport them back to your territory, making you far more vulnerable to a counterattack? Do you let them go? Do you break their arms and then let them go? Do you let them starve? Do you put them to the sword?

Are atrocities justified if it means a quicker end to a war? The Mongols for example, used some horrific tactics against their enemies. They built a pyramid of a hundred thousand decapitated human heads in front of the city of Delhi, which convinced them to surrender without a fight. The Mongols created a reputation for being so ruthless and terrifying that many of their enemies simply surrendered without a fight, which no doubt prevented a lot of deaths and destruction. Sp should you use such a strategies in order to get your enemies to surrender without a fight as to prevent battles that could potentially kill many more people and destroy much more infrastructure/resources/properties on both sides?

I would say that a majority of the conflicts in the game will fall under this theme.

Justice/Redemption/Forgiveness vs. Punishment/Revenge - Bad people don't always stay bad. Sometimes good people are forced into situations where they have to do bad things. Sometimes people do bad things without realizing them. Not to mention victims of war.

How do you deal with the interaction between those who have been wronged and the people who wronged them? What happens when victims of a crime seek a punishment that may be beyond what should be appropriate? Is forgiveness something that has to be earned? What if a victim never forgives the perpetrator of a crime regardless of how they try to atone for their wrongs? Does redemption have some end goal that can be achieved or is a journey with no true end? What if the family member of someone who died during a war seeks retribution against the soldier(s) who killed that person? How do you deal with an entire family/clan/tribe/nation that feels wronged by another and seeks a war of vengeance?

Social/Cultural Norms/Standards and Shifts/Clashes between/in Culture(s) - Our standards and norms are not universal, they are defined by environment, circumstance, the people who hold power, and sometimes seemingly randomly/arbitrarily. What happens when cultures with different norms/standards clash and what happens when there are shifts within the standards and norms of a culture?

For example, fire is associated with hell and eternal damnation in certain cultures but it can also symbolize warmth, illumination, and knowledge. What happens when a culture that sees fire as a symbol of evil comes in contact with a culture that sees fire as a symbol of good? Can they learn to trust each other and come to coexist? What if there is significant religious symbolism involved? Is it even possible for a religion that fears and condemns something make peace with another religion that worships that thing? Things get even more interesting when magic, gods, spirits, etc. are involve.

Let's say that there is a warrior culture where standards of power, respect, and beauty are defined by physical prowess, strength of arms, and tactical/strategic expertise. However, the mages are beginning to develop more useful and powerful spells, causing a shift in the balance of power. How do the warriors respond to this change? Do they resist? Do they capitulate? Do they attempt to form alliances and peacefully integrate these changes? There would obviously be a lot of factional politics involved. There could also be gender politics involved. Perhaps women were treated less equally or fairly in the warrior dominated culture but since more women are mages, they are now able to achieve greater status and gain more power.

Moral Absolutism vs. Moral Relativism - Are some things just inherently evil/wrong and some things inherently good/right, or does everything depend on circumstances. There's the obvious questions of if murder is always wrong or if forgiveness/charity is always right, etc. However, there's also questions based on the fantastical elements of the game world, like are demons/devils (or whatever creature is analogous to demons/devils) inherently evil, are angels inherently good, are certain schools of magic inherently good or evil, is healing magic inherently good and is necromancy inherently bad.

What about a society that utilizes necromancy in a pragmatic way that benefits its people? Perhaps they turn skilled and educated people, who are willing, into undead after their death so that they can continue to serve their nation.

What about people who use healing magic to prolong torture and punishment? They could chop off a person's fingers and then magically regenerate them or have someone swallow a seed and then magically facilitate the growth of that seed into a tree.

Edited by Giantevilhead, 18 September 2012 - 03:16 AM.

  • Paul D, JFS and Sugarjaye like this

#59
OldRPG'sAreGood

OldRPG'sAreGood

    Svef Addict of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 129 posts
  • Location:The Vulgar Monkey (I lied, really Finland)
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Morality
  • Economy issues
  • (Feudal) class system differences, in wealth, social status and what have you.
  • War, in a non-glorified manner
  • Politics
  • Life and death, and their relation to each other
  • Religion (of the region)


#60
ET3D

ET3D

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 33 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Frankly I want a fantasy RPG to evoke a feeling of wonder. I play a game to escape reality, not to get another dose of it. I want to play someone larger than life who solves larger than life problems, not someone who waddles in the dirt of endless conflicts and mundane chores. The OP had some good themes, because they can help create a good story, but when this degenerates to something like rape, no I don't want that in a game. Background, okay, put it in front and I'll just say thank you and goodbye.

One mature subject I find unhappily little broached by RPGs is the subject of childbearing. So seldom do we encounter directly the rearing of children as yet in their swaddling clothes. So seldom does a woman give birth.

It's perhaps simply a subject particularly alien to the thinking of the 15-19 male demographic which has predominated, in RPGing of days past. An unweened child evokes such radically different emotions in persons of different life experiences. But it is one of the focal realities of human life. We bear children. We rear our young. And we ought do so in our RPG stories.


Speaking as a father, why would I want that in a game? Child rearing is a difficult and thankless job, and the good thing about it is that it's your children and you love them. Why would I want to rear some NPC brat? Want to raise someone, play The Sims.

Edited by ET3D, 18 September 2012 - 03:24 AM.

  • Mabster and Uncanny Danny like this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mature themes, dialogue, philosophy

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users