Reservations about the Project

[MReed]

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3) Not having Paypal set up, originally asking $30 shipping for $5000 backers, not having more details on multilanguage support for the game.

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Everything else has been addressed, I think, but not this, so... The reason for lack of PayPal support initally is very simple:

 

With Amazon payments you are setting up a contigent payment -- a promise to pay a certain amount of money in the future (specifically, at the end of the funding period). If the project doesn't fund, then you don't get charged, and you can change (increase / reduce / cancel) your funding contribution up until the point the funding period ends. Those options don't exist with PayPal -- most importantly, if they accepted PayPal on day 1, and the project failed to reach the funding goal, there would be no way to return the money to the PayPal contributors. This would be awkward, to say the least...

 

Thus, no paypal until the project was funded. Now, of course, matters are different, but I suspect that this is another item that falls under the "We didn't expect it to fund that quickly" storyline.

 

Speaking generally in regards to your other concerns: Kickstarter investments should always be made with the understanding that you have no better than a 50-50 chance of getting anything for your money, and the odds that whatever product is made will meet your dreams is very, very low. If this wasn't the case, then the project would likely have received funding from traditional sources (banks, investment professionals, etc.) in the first place -- after all, that's how these groups make their money. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't participate (I did), but you should do so only with money you are willing to lose.

[descalabro]

Well, I believe they defined only some very important basic points about the game because they actually want to make the game based on the players' preferences. To be honest, I was not impressed by the map, or the logo, or the video (the music was ok), it all looked very cliché and I think I would have preferred to see them just presenting the project merely on the basis of 'pre-rendered isometric single player cRPG' which development would be based on the most appreciated features on this forum. This is why I think polls should be used as much as possible because they display information fast and clearly. I think almost all of the really important questions have been adressed already. And I think it's a fair system, even if they can't please everyone in the end.

 

I do agree April 2014 is very little time to finish this game the way most people on this forum seem to be expecting, that's why I created this poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60383-flexible-deadline-for-a-more-refined-game/

[LordCrash]

You shouldn't forget that the devs normally don't do the stuff which you require here. Normally that's the tast of the publisher. Devs are normally not in marketing, public relations, sales and things like that and they have to learn here, too, I think. So give them time and they will learn.

Edited September 20, 2012 by LordCrash

[KenThomas]

All valid points, the deadline being the most concerning. Most AAA games take between 3-4 yrs to develop.

 

This ain't an AAA title though, is it? Not in the overblown, over-hyped, uber-marketed CoD way I consider 'AAA.'

 

I paid $35.00 for a game up front. I don't suddenly feel like a shareholder, just a person who put his money where his mouth is. Over-entitlement is one of the most prevalent yet pointless features of these types of forums. I'm not saying *you* are, far from it, but we're heading slowly in that direction IMO.

 

Yes, I agree completely and that's something I would also like to avoid. I'm going to be pithy here and say people's sense of entitlement is the number one problem in our society.

[Gyges]

Yeah, you guys are gonna need some serious QA. Hearing you're gonna do a beta is reassuring though.

[Sales101]

I so agree with the questions and would love way more information about the game. I also think they were very short sighted on thinking they may not get funded. Obsidian is a large enough company and is profitable. If a company of this size wants to be part of kickstarter then they need to bring their best game all the time and be very upfront. Obsidian has seen what kickstarter can do wiith projects upfront. they are working very close on one with Brian Fargo and they are being paid to help on the wasteland project. Thinking you may not get funded is not the answer I wanted from amyone asking for a couple million , That makes me feel like the project was on a whim.

 

I don't think any thinks of there pledge as being a shareholder but we are entitled to lots of information. Yes I do mean entitled. I backed the project on trust that they will make a great game and I still think they will. The group at Obsidian has been doing this a long time. We as backers are investing in the game just wthout any financial gain. When Brian Fargo started wasteland he was will to put a couple hundred grand to wee it funded adn that shows me he is vested and will put out something great. I Don't see any of that with this project even though I do believe in the project. Don't forget that without the backers this would not be happening.

[Wombat]

From Swen Vincke's blog @Larian Studios

My fear was that when it was going to come out, players were going to be disappointed. Or alternatively, I reasoned they’d need a second round of funding, and perhaps fail at that. But since they went way beyond that and got to the level of funding with which you can make a decent modern RPG, that risk is now lower, so they’ll only have themselves to blame if the game turns out bad.

Inevitably however, one of these very hyped Kickstarter games is going to be a flop, and I’m not sure what the reactions are going to be when that happens. Nor am I sure what the reactions are going to be when these projects run very late or go over budget.

We’ve often seen that the higher the hype is, the deeper the fall afterwards if the game doesn’t deliver (except for Diablo 3 I guess, man am I disappointed by that one).

I think the entry is a honest opinion about Kickstarter from a developer. So, I felt it risky of Obsidian to start Kickstarter with little info. I've already been surprised to see posts where some people even expect AAA game level graphics with full voice recording. In my case, I expect a deep and responsive world presented by "2D" graphics (Sorry, no tech specialist here!), reasonably good music/ambient character voices, and, of course, well-written narratives while the game-play being tactical, requiring a certain level of stragegies.

 

So, I agree that it would be suitable for Obsidian to explain how much money is going to cost and some details about the content, at least, before the closure of the Kickstarter funding. Nobody here wouldn't like to see the possible bad scenario like above. Of course, some people will never be persuaded but I think avoiding risks of misunderstanding will eventually help.

[Tigranes]

If they had to tell us everything about the game every week and get feedback, I wouldn't back the project, because I know it would turn out crap. I know that's not what you're saying, of course - my point is that we are funding them to make the game we want, not to deliver pages of information every day 'because this wouldn't happen without the backers'.

 

I agree they should give us more information than publisher-funded projects would. The thing is, they have already, relative to the stage of production. Wasteland 2 had even less details in the first few days, because they didn't even have an engine. With daily updates coming up, there will be more.

 

I agree they weren't prepared enough and that was a mistake, they really should have known better. But I don't think I even need to answer whether the project was on a 'whim', obviously. They never said they didn't expect to be funded, they said they didn't expect to be funded in 24 hours.

 

I think they made some mistakes in the presentation at the start, and combine that with people trying to adapt to what Kickstarter means, we've got these reservations. But it's mainly at the level of how to handle the flow of information; to suggest that Obsidian aren't invested in this is unfounded, and unnecessary worrying. I think they're on the ball now with the last couple of updates, and if they keep it up it should be fine, and by the end of Kickstarter we'd have plenty of info to make a judgment on.

[ilhdr]

IMO some of the goals are unnecessary, they should instead focus in doing the best with the resources available, not tiding it with 1 dollar more or less

[Merin]

Not this.

 

Again.

 

Double Fine didn't have it's first update until a week after it made it's goal. We haven't hit a week on this project and they've given 4 updates and have been making the rounds on game sites and twitter and...

 

You know what?

 

[Gorth]

I think they got caught with their pants down and thought they had a week or two before getting even close to the initial goal. IIRC, Avellone even mentioned in an interview that they (paraphrased heavily by me) had a plan B for relaunching a kickstarter if they failed to reach the 1.1m in 32 days.

 

[Monkcrab]

Awww, Obsidian just couldn't believe how much people really love them when they said they do, silly. It's like the girl at the prom who couldn't believe she was pretty until the guy of her dreams ask her for a dance!

 

It's been what, four days. Kickstarting games has been around for what, six months? Let's give them the benefit of doubt, here. We're still getting way more than what we've got from Wasteland or Double Fine in the same time period.

[Wombat]

I think they made some mistakes in the presentation at the start, and combine that with people trying to adapt to what Kickstarter means, we've got these reservations. But it's mainly at the level of how to handle the flow of information; to suggest that Obsidian aren't invested in this is unfounded, and unnecessary worrying. I think they're on the ball now with the last couple of updates, and if they keep it up it should be fine, and by the end of Kickstarter we'd have plenty of info to make a judgment on.

In that case it should be all right. I don't have any insider knowledge or experience in game development but, from what I've seen so far, PE seems to be on the right direction to my eyes, at least. I, simply, wouldn't like them to fail for both the sake of Kickstarter and the love of RPG™. In any case, it's just a suggestion from my point of view, as well as other every single post of mine. I can be wrong as well as others and I'm glad to be wrong about the possible mess.

 

I think they got caught with their pants down and thought they had a week or two before getting even close to the initial goal. IIRC, Avellone even mentioned in an interview that they (paraphrased heavily by me) had a plan B for relaunching a kickstarter if they failed to reach the 1.1m in 32 days.

lol@your expression.

[Nakia]

The only problem I have is with the estimated launch date. I do think that unrealistic. I agree with those who think Obsidian got caught with their pants down. I think they underestimated their fan base and how starved and disillusioned we are.

 

As a backer I do not expect to tell Obsidian what to do. That would be utterly asinine. I am backing them because I believe in them. Sure I will post up all kinds of ideas. Who knows I may even come up with something they can use or at least give them a spark to something they can do. A week hasn't even passed. Give the guys some slack. Let them catch up with what happened. It is obvious to me that they were not expecting the initial reaction. They have responded to us. Remember they are on the West Coast of the USA. Take that into consideration before you start complaining about not getting information. Also these guys need to eat, sleep and relax if they are going to do a good job. All work and no play makes creators really dumb and they end up non-creative.

 

We complain about publishers well let us not act like them. Have faith be supportive be positive. I am positive I will love this game.

[Wombat]

Well, at least, in my case, my concern is possible misinterpretation/misunderstanding from some backers. If Obsidian do their best in showing reasonable amount of info before the Kickstarter pledge deadline, there shouldn't be any room for them to complain in the future.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Regarding international shipping and the lack of multilanguage support, two points:

 

1. Many countries both enjoy gaming and speak English, despite not being the US. I'm in one of them.

 

2. Multilanguage support can actually create significant restrictions on how the game is written. For example, if different verb conjugations differ based on the level of familiarity between his speaker and audience, that information then needs to be recorded somewhere, line by line, so the localisation teams can translate directly.