The Good and Bad of Infinity Engine

[Domigorgon]

Think of all the Infinity Engine games you've played... Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale...

 

What did you like about them?

What was missing?

 

Is there anything you would like to see added to the engine?

Anything you would like to see removed?

 

What about the HUD? Did you prefer the BG style, or Planescape?

Character portraits or 3D rendered in real-time?

 

Sneaking and traps system? Character commands and formations? Command queue or one-command per action? Customizable AI?

 

Etc.

[Lysen]

The only thing a really disliked about the Infinity Engine games was AD&D rules. They felt very restricting and didn't make much sense, that's why I am a big PS:T fan.

[C2B]

They are not going to use the infinity engine.

 

(If you meant it differently, sorry)

Edited September 17, 2012 by C2B

[Semper]

positive:

- fog of war

- portraits

- locked camera

- 2d backgrounds giving the artists total freedom without the constraints of a 3d engine

- tactical formations

- no way to look at the sky

 

negative:

- areas were almost still lifes with just a few environment animations

- 2d sprites of characters/monsters are inefficient (rendering of equipment) and difficult to create

- clumsy animations

- simple color filters instead of lighting

 

what i like to see added:

- diverse environment animations

- 3d characters

- scripted triggers to give areas tactical advantages

- being able to give chained commands like different attacks and a path to follow

Edited September 17, 2012 by Semper

[evdk]

Pathfinding, for the love of god. That was absolutely atrocious in BG. I would say that after 15 years no such thing can exist again but this is Obsidian so it bears mentioning.

[Domigorgon]

They are not going to use the infinity engine.

 

(If you meant it differently, sorry)

 

In spirit, it will be like the Infinity Engine. Since it has no name yet, I used IE as a reference point.

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

Pathfinding is my number once concern. God that was terrible. As much as I like those games, going back to them can be a test of patience.

 

It's not quite engine-related, but I'd like to see slightly more grid-based levels in Eternity. Infinity Engine had an issue with smaller and more complicated environments where it wasn't always clear whether a path was open or blocked, and if there was line of sight. Characters would also rarely re-position ideally, instead storming around corners rather than taking two steps to the left. That kind of thing needs to be improved... not necessarily looking for a firm, square grid, but something a bit more measured and predictable to navigate.

Edited September 17, 2012 by sea

[evdk]

They are not going to use the infinity engine.

 

(If you meant it differently, sorry)

 

In spirit, it will be like the Infinity Engine. Since it has no name yet, I used IE as a reference point.

Aren't they using the Onyx Engine of Dungeon Siege III fame?

[Semper]

yeah, onyx with a different renderer. in fact there's no official word on this but i guess it should be the most locigal outcome.

[dlux]

Pathfinding is my number once concern. God that was terrible. As much as I like those games, going back to them can be a test of patience.

 

OMG the patchfinding was indeed HORRIBLE. Other than that the engine was actually very, very good imo.

[Ethesen]

[...]

what i like to see added:

- diverse environment animations

- 3d characters

- scripted triggers to give areas tactical advantages

- being able to give chained commands like different attacks and a path to follow

 

Yep, that's the way to go - beautiful ( ) hand-drawn backgrounds and high quality models for characters, allowing the display of armor and weapons they are currently wearing, as well as a plethora of animations (even for actions such as drinking potions).

 

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'd like if there were fewer types of armor (sets) which are more unique (not necesserily enchanted). I think it's pretty pointless to change armor every hour for something 10% better.

 

 

Each set, and even individual pieces, should have their unique aspects - maybe the leather armor looted from a thug would lower the disposition of good, lawful NPCs, or the other way - a guard's armor would make thiefs hide their secrets from you; a plate armor could scare bandits, while an average citizen's outfit could be used to lure (somewhat provoke) a group of thugs.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Ethesen

[evdk]

Pathfinding is my number once concern. God that was terrible. As much as I like those games, going back to them can be a test of patience.

 

OMG the patchfinding was indeed HORRIBLE. Other than that the engine was actually very, very good imo.

The list like inventory is actually console related thing, so it should not rear its ugly head in a PC exclusive game. Unless Josh underwent some creative trepanation courses and is now effectively braindead.

[codexer]

The bad stuff was the poor path-finding and the poor AI (archers moving to shoot, even though they don't need to), the unresponsiveness due to the faux-turn based combat (you know when your character doesn't start to act until the next "cycle" in the turn-rotation). Generally the lack of a good implementation of AD&D. ToEE, albeit being d&d 3.x, was utterly amazing in comparison to the combat system of IE-games.

 

And also how the games lacked non-combat skills. They were all slash and hack games; except for PS:T, which had plenty of stat-checks in dialogue.

 

And a lack of choice and consequence; responsiveness in the game world.

 

The good stuff was the beautiful level design, the richness of items (and descriptions) and characters. One of the things that made BG was the fact that you could walk up to the edge of a map and cross over to the next. There was no need to talk to some entitled bitch in a tavern to be able to travel to a rural keep; the game world was almost all there right from the start for you to explore. Nice~

Edited September 17, 2012 by codexer

[Sensuki]

I liked the Inventory System (Not talking about the UI here FYI).

 

I mean it wasn't perfect, but it was better than BioWare's later systems.

 

Good.

 

 

Even Better.

 

 

Bad.

 

 

And Bad.

 

 

YMMV.

[C2B]

They are not going to use the infinity engine.

 

(If you meant it differently, sorry)

 

In spirit, it will be like the Infinity Engine. Since it has no name yet, I used IE as a reference point.

 

Onyx. The same engine that was used for Aliens, DSIII and now South Park.

 

As I understand it they program another render for it to *emulate* a modern version of the infinity engine style.

Edited September 17, 2012 by C2B

[Domigorgon]

What I'd like is if you could press Shift or Tab or something, and it would highlight the floor (i.e. show all the spaces where you can walk, where you can't, and if some items are an obstruction to spellcasting and arrows or not). Baldur's Gate often had walls and buildings obscuring floors and sometimes items. Another button would highlight shadows for example, or hot spots that are ideal for the positioning of your party thief/sharpshooter (unless there is merely a hide-in-plain-sight feature). Like hiding in shadow in Desperados: Wanted Dead or Alive, if anyone's played it.

 

Another reason I mentioned traps is that I never found much use for them in any computer RPG. Like non-combat skills, they might require an update. It'd be great if we could get some kind of heads-up that an enemy will pass this way or that, like sending a thief to scout out their patrol route and then set traps along it.

 

Fog of war is a must.

[Avantenor]

Is it Onyx?

 

Pathfinding was really the worst about that games (best one up to date: Drakensang; ai never moved into a dead end, even when clicking on the other side of the river), followed by the confusing journal (except: Planescape). And I really hated the 20 arrows / potion cap per inventory slot.

 

What was good was auto-pause and party formations. That never returned in games I played. The rest I liked evolved carefully over the time.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Avantenor

[descalabro]

positive:

- fog of war

- portraits

- locked camera

- 2d backgrounds giving the artists total freedom without the constraints of a 3d engine

- tactical formations

- no way to look at the sky

 

negative:

- areas were almost still lifes with just a few environment animations

- 2d sprites of characters/monsters are inefficient (rendering of equipment) and difficult to create

- clumsy animations

- simple color filters instead of lighting

 

what i like to see added:

- diverse environment animations

- 3d characters

- scripted triggers to give areas tactical advantages

- being able to give chained commands like different attacks and a path to follow

 

I agree, let's have some rivers running, some windmills working, some vehicles moving, some sea-waves, and some really big creatures. And make dragons fly this time. It really felt awkward when a Wyvern had to go around the lake to attack me instead of flying over the water. It's 10 years later, so no excuses.

[general_azure]

Since noone else mentioned it yet: the random number generator used back then was a horrible, wretched creature. Barely deserves being called random actually. A few lines of code might have prevented a lot of frustration at that point.

[Veca]

.....

 

What about the HUD? Did you prefer the BG style, or Planescape?

Character portraits or 3D rendered in real-time?

 

Sneaking and traps system? Character commands and formations? Command queue or one-command per action? Customizable AI?

 

Etc.

 

I prefer the BG hud over the PST one, I found that it was more user friendly.

 

The portrait style, I prefer the BG one again, I felt that when they were made right , they gave a feel of how the person's mentality is. Like Minsc caring for his hamster, and Shar Teel was an angry young woman.

 

It would be nice if they implemented some sort of queue system, like in Star Craft 2 where you can assign a unit to first go and build a bunker, and then return to the mineral field.

[Veca]

positive:

- fog of war

- portraits

- locked camera

- 2d backgrounds giving the artists total freedom without the constraints of a 3d engine

- tactical formations

- no way to look at the sky

 

negative:

- areas were almost still lifes with just a few environment animations

- 2d sprites of characters/monsters are inefficient (rendering of equipment) and difficult to create

- clumsy animations

- simple color filters instead of lighting

 

what i like to see added:

- diverse environment animations

- 3d characters

- scripted triggers to give areas tactical advantages

- being able to give chained commands like different attacks and a path to follow

 

All this, so true. Hope to see what's described here implemented in some sort in the new engine.

[cyberarmy]

positive:

- fog of war

- portraits

- locked camera

- 2d backgrounds giving the artists total freedom without the constraints of a 3d engine

- tactical formations

- no way to look at the sky

 

negative:

- areas were almost still lifes with just a few environment animations

- 2d sprites of characters/monsters are inefficient (rendering of equipment) and difficult to create

- clumsy animations

- simple color filters instead of lighting

 

what i like to see added:

- diverse environment animations

- 3d characters

- scripted triggers to give areas tactical advantages

- being able to give chained commands like different attacks and a path to follow

 

 

Agreed.

We want "moving" lava rivers pretty please

[Estelindis]

The only thing that really bothered me about Infinity was that in earlier versions it could be hard to notice or access certain clickables that were hidden by overlapping scenery and since there was no camera to rotate you couldn't create your own better angle to look around and grab it. It was solved by the addition of a key (was it Z or tab or somesuch?) that highlighted all clickables when held down. I hope that'll be in Project Eternity. Don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Estelindis