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I understand it's hard to put a protagonist in peril but something that super bothered me about BG and IwD (probably the only thing that bothered me) was the amount of time my 18 int mage character walked into a trap that I, as the player, spotted from a mile away.

 

I'm not talking about a physical trap, but the moment the enemy jumps out from behind a sofa and goes 'BWAHAHAHA you did exactly what I wanted you to! Ambush!' and I let out an audible sigh as I the story forced me into that situation.

 

 

If I can see that Koveras is Sarevok backwards my highly intelligent mage character can. Let me DO something about it or don't put me in that position in the first place :p

 

 

I know it's picky but it does get frustrating :)

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Another example is in Dragon Age II with that priest chick that murders the viscount's son. I knew she was trouble from the beginning, after she sets you up the first time she should have been dead meat, but no, she has to set a trap later so you aren't allowed to kill her. No situations like that please.

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The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

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I agree, and lend my voice to the chorus. I'd like to suggest it go even further, though; if I can tell their's going to be an ambush, or a character is going to screw me over down the line, I'd like to see the option to ambush them. Possibly even with the option to mock them for their stupidity, and gloat about it.

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Good point, and I'd agree. I definitely like to feel surprised vs. "yup, knew that was coming." :)

 

I feel for the writers these days ... sometimes I think the audience has become so savvy overall that it must be pretty difficult to think of even more variations.

I actually enjoy it, at times, where the antagonist is known from the start, so it's never who it is that's a mystery, but just the details of how you're going to set your own trap to outwit/stop him/her. I'm thinking of a Sherlock vs. Moriarty dynamic or something more along those lines.

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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Possibly even with the option to mock them for their stupidity, and gloat about it.

 

Especially with the option to mock them and gloat.

 

(But if you do that very often, your enemies might hear about how you tend to do that, and set up a fake ambush to ambush you as you ambush the fake ambushers. (Ambushception!) Then mock you and gloat.)

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Possibly even with the option to mock them for their stupidity, and gloat about it.

 

Especially with the option to mock them and gloat.

 

(But if you do that very often, your enemies might hear about how you tend to do that, and set up a fake ambush to ambush you as you ambush the fake ambushers. (Ambushception!) Then mock you and gloat.)

 

That made me think of Princess Bride for some reason hahaha.

 

But does he know that I know that he knows! dun dun duuuun.

Edited by Moonlight Butterfly

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Possibly even with the option to mock them for their stupidity, and gloat about it.

 

Especially with the option to mock them and gloat.

 

(But if you do that very often, your enemies might hear about how you tend to do that, and set up a fake ambush to ambush you as you ambush the fake ambushers. (Ambushception!) Then mock you and gloat.)

 

Ambushception? That is now going into my vocabulary. Thank you for the word! Also, I love the idea of arrogance being able to backfire on the player.

Edited by HangedMan

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One of the major differences between Obsidian's writing team and Bioware's is that, Obsidian allows the players to build their own stories through PC-NPC interactions. There is not so many surprise factors while the players can enjoy more personalized feel to the story.

 

BTW, as for tactical ambushes...well, I don't mind these ambushes like in IWD series. Related with this, IIRC ranger character in The Black Hound allowed the party to ambush/avoid enemies and even to prepare formation before initiating the fight. This is just one of the ideas of Sawyer to blush up wilderness adventures.

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My personal prefferred solution? Let us attack anyone, cast our spells wherever, et cetera, and have a backpath to the MQ (like in Morrowind). So, say that we realize who Sarevok is while at Candelkeep. If we attack him and win, we get a note on his body about the rest of the Iron throne, and then we can go about our business defeating them and finishing the game. This backpath can be as bare bones as you want (For Morrowind it was literally just fighting people and taking their stuff), so long as it lets you get to the end.

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Another example is in Dragon Age II with that priest chick that murders the viscount's son. I knew she was trouble from the beginning, after she sets you up the first time she should have been dead meat, but no, she has to set a trap later so you aren't allowed to kill her. No situations like that please.

 

I can't agree more.

 

For that matter the bombing later in the game, you can see it coming from a mile away he outright comes to you for help. You can refuse him, but even though you can get a definite air of 'not good' from what he's about to do, the game prevents you from doing anything about it. Even though any sane person would have knocked the screwball over the head, stripped anything he could use offensively from him, and dragged him to the nearest prison.The only reason that bombing should have happened is if you were just plain stupid, and really didn't see it coming, or actually agreed with him.


"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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Quest design is one thing, general writing is another entirely. You can account for one but not the other. It doesn't really do much to say "please know what will surprise me".

 

I think it would be cool to have the ability to just up and kill anyone at any time New Vegas-style, personally, though I don't know if it would work. That way, if you think someone's going to be revealed as a hidden threat, you just stab them, and see if your instincts were correct.

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I totally agree. Foreshadowing exists in a good story, but don't make it blatantly obvious. I'd love to have options where I can act if I think a person's suspicious, like question them or break into their house or tail them for awhile or something.

 

Another thing that's slightly related - if someone's invisible, I don't want to be able to see their outline and not be able to attack them. If they're invisible, I don't want to see them.

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This happens with everything in Skyrim as well, not just in traps. Bethesda apparently decided that every player is a moron. In a lot of quests your only dialogue option is to ask the "elephant in the room/captain obvious question". There are absolutely no skill checks in dialogue, other than speech and that is only to get the upper hand in trades/bribes/threats. Even if your character has read every book on dragons and alduin, you still have to ask stupid questions. The worst thing is the explanation about why your dragonborn can learn shouts quickly. It made me feel the dumpest spellsword in Nirn!

 

But if New Vegas and Alpha Protocol are anything, Obsidian hasn't lost it's touch, and the player character won't just be an idiot regardless of playstyle/stats.

Edited by kenup

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