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[Merged] The races of the world, Please something other then Elves/Dwarves/Orcs/Humans?

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#161
Stiler

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dwarves and elves are pretty boring and overused but how about drow and their equivalent duargar dwarf counterpart? obviously they cant use these names as they belong to AD&D but they could use the same concepts

drow are very underused in rpgs. they featured prominently only in NWN underdark expansion and had some minor appearenes in other games so there is a vast potential there

and it would fit the mature tone that obsidian said they are aiming for


There is a lake called 'lake of drow tombs'. so drow might be in :sweat: If they are in, I hope they do not coun't as seperate race from elves in race selection or else that is another slot taken up by another oldie fantasy race. :down:


Actually that lake is "Lake of drowned tombs" it was posted on twitter that was the name, it was just shortened.

#162
Badmojo

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dwarves and elves are pretty boring and overused but how about drow and their equivalent duargar dwarf counterpart? obviously they cant use these names as they belong to AD&D but they could use the same concepts

drow are very underused in rpgs. they featured prominently only in NWN underdark expansion and had some minor appearenes in other games so there is a vast potential there

and it would fit the mature tone that obsidian said they are aiming for


There is a lake called 'lake of drow tombs'. so drow might be in :sweat: If they are in, I hope they do not coun't as seperate race from elves in race selection or else that is another slot taken up by another oldie fantasy race. :down:


Actually that lake is "Lake of drowned tombs" it was posted on twitter that was the name, it was just shortened.


oh, that is good then

#163
Foefaller

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After Andrzej Sapkowski, black/white settings are pretty boring. By the way, Keldorn is interesting because of his personal conflicts and quest, not his outlook on life. It's the conflict that's interesting, not the naive paladin thinking.


Really? Cause while his personal quest was great, to me it was because of he was a guy with a strong, moral standand without being an arrogant ass, something right out of Tolkien's black and white books. He was a well-written paladin who was an honestly good guy, something that even then had been deconstucted so many times that seeing the genuine article again was refreshing.

Edited by Foefaller, 17 September 2012 - 05:17 PM.

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#164
Akratus

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dwarves and elves are pretty boring and overused but how about drow and their equivalent duargar dwarf counterpart? obviously they cant use these names as they belong to AD&D but they could use the same concepts

drow are very underused in rpgs. they featured prominently only in NWN underdark expansion and had some minor appearenes in other games so there is a vast potential there

and it would fit the mature tone that obsidian said they are aiming for

Or, instead of elves and dwarves who are slightly different, let's have...

Orks. Dark-skinned and red-eyed. A race bred for war by human mages. Masters of weapons and tactics.
Trolls. Big, hulking, and stupid. Think super-mutants from Fallout. Walking tanks with short fuses.
Tieflings. Tainted bloodlines and pawns to higher powers. Infiltrators and spies, lurkers in the shadows.

It doesn't take that much to get used to a new race. :)


Those aren't new. Orcs, Orks, Goblins and even trolls, tieflings, gnomes, demons, ugh. . most races in most fantasy games I've seen yet have been mostly very boring. Not necessarily the characters themselves but the race and it's history has always been pretty dull.

It has never come close to being as crazy, diverse and interesting as our real world history. Just take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mkVSasZIM

Like in that blog post Sawyer made about that Black Hound game: http://twofoldsilenc...s-deal-was.html in this he talks about how interesting factions and peoples can be. I would LOVE to see original or even not at all original races (elves for ex.) to have such a diverse history. I don't want it to be: Elves are immortal and wise. I want it to be: There are many different groups of elves around the globe, they generally live longer than humans but not by much. Some have established high societies in advanced empires, and some have lived more natively. Relations between them and humans differ between regions, but racism between elves and humans is not uncommon.

I don't just want races to be grey instead of black and white, but to have a diverse history and factions.

Edited by ArealLechOmit, 18 September 2012 - 02:00 AM.


#165
Sordel

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I had enough dwarves in WoW, with their beards, beer and throaty Scottish laughter. They were just one reason why it was always more fun to play Horde in that game.

Obviously it's still possible to reinvent the classic Tolkienesque races as something more interesting, but the easiest approach would be start again with a world of men and divide them along cultural lines. Nords, Redguards and Imperials all feel completely different to me in Elder Scrolls games, yet they are all essentially humans.

#166
Akratus

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I had enough dwarves in WoW, with their beards, beer and throaty Scottish laughter. They were just one reason why it was always more fun to play Horde in that game.

Obviously it's still possible to reinvent the classic Tolkienesque races as something more interesting, but the easiest approach would be start again with a world of men and divide them along cultural lines. Nords, Redguards and Imperials all feel completely different to me in Elder Scrolls games, yet they are all essentially humans.


Like the dwemer. Babylonian humanoid steampunk elves mistakenly called dwarves, ho!
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#167
Domigorgon

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Also, let's see some FAT elves at least! Fat bald elves!
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#168
mikayel

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So... do you guys want NEW non-human species or just the same crap as before? Because so far nothing particularly new has been suggested. Possibly for good reason. China Mieville style beetle-headed women and cactus people is pretty... stupid.

You want what... sentient constructs? Things that are basically human but with different skin and teeth and persecuted? You want insect people with 4 arms? How about abberations, changelings, and naga? Cuz all those things have been done, and all those things exist in the most typical of fantasy settings: Forgotten Realms D&D.

How about they just focus on making what they have work well, and we skip the palette swaps and cosmetic arms, nyeah? Mask of the Betrayer is a great example of taking an only moderately unique setting and making it a great game by expanding on the relationships, ties, connections, and themes that permeate throughout the setting and characters that are all... well... basically "typical fantasy".

Also, let's see some FAT elves at least! Fat bald elves!


Those are called Dwarves. Elves, as Tolkien conceived them, are specifically meant to be ubermenschen as based on Norse and old English mythos.

Sidenote: Elves were mostly mischeivous, evil, or otherwise "bad". Dwarves were "good". I am, however, reminded of a half-elf in Divine Divinity who had a beard. The character can even question him about it and is given a somewhat aloof response about people doing what they were basically built to: fornicating.

Edited by mikayel, 27 September 2012 - 01:59 PM.


#169
BasaltineBadger

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I really hope that races will be more different from each other than giving +1 to one stat and -1 to another. For example, in the Bloodlines different clans had special advantages and disadvantages other races couldn't gain and different sets of powers, in ADnD rogues of different races got bonuses to different skills depending on their race. Dwarves for example should get some special stances for fighters and spells no other races could get. I also hope that everything else than standard DnD starting race will be included. It doesn't matter if it will be orc, werecat or pixie.


You want what... sentient constructs? Things that are basically human but with different skin and teeth and persecuted? You want insect people with 4 arms? How about abberations, changelings, and naga? Cuz all those things have been done, and all those things exist in the most typical of fantasy settings: Forgotten Realms D&D.


But they are rarely playable and integrated into society. There is great difference between Vampires in Bloodlines and their counterparts in DnD, same goes for Orcs in TES, half-ogres in Arcanum and minotaurs (Tauren) in WoW.

Edited by BasaltineBadger, 27 September 2012 - 01:59 PM.


#170
Tale

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So... do you guys want NEW non-human species or just the same crap as before? Because so far nothing particularly new has been suggested. Possibly for good reason. China Mieville style beetle-headed women and cactus people is pretty... stupid.

You want what... sentient constructs? Things that are basically human but with different skin and teeth and persecuted? You want insect people with 4 arms? How about abberations, changelings, and naga? Cuz all those things have been done, and all those things exist in the most typical of fantasy settings: Forgotten Realms D&D.

How about they just focus on making what they have work well, and we skip the palette swaps and cosmetic arms, nyeah? Mask of the Betrayer is a great example of taking an only moderately unique setting and making it a great game by expanding on the relationships, ties, connections, and themes already hinted at in the core setting.

I like the Thri-Keen suggestion. :/

Someone whose physiology differs from the default humanoid assumption enough that we can expect significant combat changes. And I don't mean elves with wings. 4 arms! No arms, an entire race that fights using their feet or mouths! Quadrapeds! Sapient blobs! Extra-dimensional energy beings that occupy multiple locations at once!
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#171
mikayel

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But they are rarely playable and integrated into society. There is great difference between Vampires in Bloodlines and their counterparts in DnD, same goes for Orcs in TES, half-ogres in Arcanum and minotaurs (Tauren) in WoW.


Vampires are easily playable in D&D if you are with a competent group who is willing to use the rules placed before them. There is clearly a difference in "vampires" when you compare a whole game setting/system that revolves around vampires to a game setting/system that only includes them as a PC or NPC. Regardless, vampires can be played just as any other PC in D&D games. As can Minotaurs, Frost Giants, Bearded Devils, and Ropers. The question is, would you enjoy playing as them? Would your group? And what would the cost be to your game in general?

I would prefer a setting that excludes annoying creatures that are included for the sake of novelty like Cactus-people and instead uses creatures in an interesting manner that, above all else, fit the setting. I'm thinking of quick-witted debates with war deserting Black Abishai and exchanges with incorporeal hive-mind like beings (ghosts). Pretty much the whole of Arcanum is a great example of ecosystems, species, histories, cultures, and all subsequent connections of those things done well.

I'll pass on Drow that are oh so bothered by society's expectations of them and what their gut tells them.

Desires of being half shark-alligator and half man or some kind of double-hobbit are more for ridiculous games that do not take themselves seriously. It would seem, based on as little as we know about Eternity, that the setting is attempting to be serious and as such any humor would need to be subtle.

Edited by mikayel, 27 September 2012 - 02:48 PM.


#172
Jasede

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I'd like there being non-humanoid races but only if having them in your party leads to repercussions from NPCs for memorable encounters, complete with significant dialogue/quest/story changes.

Edit: For a crude example, if you are a certain race, you can't take certain quests- because the quest-givers would kill you on sight. Or if you are, say, a dwarf, certain quest rewards may be lower because the NPC has certain prejudices.

Edited by Jasede, 27 September 2012 - 03:28 PM.


#173
mikayel

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All quest rewards should scale by height. **** those short ornery bastards.

#174
TrashMan

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Meh.....humans, elves, dwarves and orcs are fine by me. They are a staple, recongnizable, relatable..and make more sense than other races anyway.

Originality? LOL.
Like a <insteranimalhere>-human hybrid is original. Like picking parts of animals and gluing them on a human is original.
Dranei? Pffft.
Pandareans? Pffft.
Quanri? Pffft.
It's just an illusion that these "new" races are new at all, or any better than the standard ones. It just seems that way.



Frankly mixing extreemly humanoid (human, elf, dwarf - they are basicly anatomicly the same) with some really weird stuff jsut comes across as weird.

#175
calabi

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How about Sentient Virus's or Bacteria.

#176
zimcub

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I just want to point out, that although OP and some other people don't like the basic races, there are people out there who do.
I don't play every other game with these fantasy setting and don't have much experience past Bioware and with dwarves and elves, however i simply loved the lore and setting in them. Just because some people play every fantasy game that comes out, doesn't mean others do too.

However i really do like some interesting ideas posted here with more exotic races like werewolfs etc, however the idea is completely lost to me if the world doesn't actually acknowledge this. It feels so pointless to add such exotic races if the world treats you like you were a human.


(Someone asked why dwarves used axes when they live in moutains.
The reason they use axes is because they also chop a lot of trees for their forges which is exactly why elves hate them.)

#177
Luckmann

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Meh.....humans, elves, dwarves and orcs are fine by me. They are a staple, recongnizable, relatable..and make more sense than other races anyway.

Originality? LOL.
Like a <insteranimalhere>-human hybrid is original. Like picking parts of animals and gluing them on a human is original.
Dranei? Pffft.
Pandareans? Pffft.
Quanri? Pffft.
It's just an illusion that these "new" races are new at all, or any better than the standard ones. It just seems that way.

Frankly mixing extreemly humanoid (human, elf, dwarf - they are basicly anatomicly the same) with some really weird stuff jsut comes across as weird.

Honestly though; As far as literary works, appreciation, etc; Isn't it the illusion that counts?

When you're doing "new" things just to seem new, you've fallen into the trap of modernism and the increasingly baroque. I don't want elves, dwarves, and humans not because they're old or because they are inherently bad. I don't want them because I've grown increasingly bored with them.

I don't remember my suggestions anymore, but assuming that I suggested, like, Thri-Kreen, Warforged, Dragonborn, Kobolds and Illithids, I don't want these because they are amazingly original. I want them because I like them, they don't get enough exposition, and I think that you could do genuinely interesting things by subverting their tropes rather than subverting, say, the dwarves, or create elven concept #2341 (Sadistic elves, no wait, that's drow, fascist elves, no wait, been done with blood elves; what about phaseshifting elves? No, wait, that's Fey. Dammit!).

Once on 4chan /tg/, 'couple of years ago now, we created a community setting that I liked a lot; especially the dwarves. They were a mish-mash between Egyptian, Aztec and Mayan motifs, who travelled the world is massive flying city-temples, constructed of of the tops of mountains, on top of which they performed bloody sacrifices. Deathly afraid of the surface world, they considered the entirety of the earth unhallowed and unclean. At what point is a dwarf not a dwarf? Our orcs were obsessed with architecture, influenced by the Babylonian and Sumerian, trying to construct towers to the heavens, producing the finest engineers and architects of the realms.

We all know the subverted races. We all know the traditional races. Why can't we take the non-traditional races - not necessarily unique ones - and toy with those for a bit? Tribal Thri-kreen with a multitude of insectoid subraces, inhabiting forests instead of deserts. Deeply religious warforged, turning to religion after losing their meaning in life, worshipping the Clockwork God of Logic (such as Primus, in DnD)? Lawful Neutral Paladins/Knights, anyone? Druidic or Fey Dragonborn that reveres nature, but keeps the highly inventive, industrious (and rebellious) kobolds under an iron (wooden?) heel of oppression? Illithids controlling a desert empire, living in pyramid-temples with jungle-like interiors, monopolizing all water, acknowledging no borders and claiming all humans as slaves by their very nature.

I don't need unique. I just want something that hasn't been done to death. If I see another "underground <elf, gnome, halfling, dwarf> race" or another arboreal half-dragon vampire, I fear I might end up stabbing myself in the eyes.

Addendum:
I liked the Qunari... until they turned them into "lolitskindademons lol".
I liked the Draenei... until they turned them into "lolitskindademons lol".
...I never liked the Pandaren, because it was a joke that was taken too far and then it all ended up just being goddamned retarded. But the idea of bear-men by itself.. I mean, it could be worse - at least it's not Wolfoids or Cathar.

Edited by Luckmann, 28 September 2012 - 06:18 AM.






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