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NoxNoctum

Any chance of pure turn-based combat?

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It's done essentially, they've pitched it as RTwP and they can't go back on it now. I like turn based strategy for combat but it's a very different style for roleplaying. Encounters take so long using pure turn based you can't have any throwaway ones, and I for one would miss them if they were gone.

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They've chosen RTwP, end of story.

Edited by Majek

1.13 killed off Ja2.

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Implementing a toggle-able TB/RTwP system (as in Arcanum) would be a bad idea. It would stretch the resources thin (money, working hours) and ultimately create a mediocre experience that would not satisfy either camp.

 

While turn-based combat is my personal preference, I'd much rather have a well crafted RTwP system that was specifically built for this game and its ruleset, than a half-baked hybrid attempt.

 

Ya I have to agree with this. Even though I prefer TB, I would rather them choose one or the other than try to do both.

 

It is true that RTwp does have the advantage of being able to rush through encounter with low level monsters, but other than that I still prefer TB. The game will be great either way though I'm sure.

Edited by NoxNoctum

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I would love to see Temple of elemental evil's combat system in this game... most likely it wont happen but still... Is the world going to implode and will i die a slow and plainful death if there is RTwP? No... But still :(

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I would love to see Temple of elemental evil's combat system in this game... most likely it wont happen but still...

 

Why anyone would choose a horrible RTwP over TB (especially when ToEE showed how superior it is in party based, top down cRPGs) is beyond me.

If that's not deliberately gimping the game's mechanics, I don't know what is.

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Arcanum anybody? Surely it wouldnt be that hard to include optional turn-based combat in this game would it?

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I dunno but I've always felt pure turn based (like ToEE, or my personal favorite, Silent Storm) is just superior. Pausable real time seemed like a concession to publishers (though I could be wrong maybe others prefer it). Especially with Xcom coming back and showing that people still have interest in purely turn based combat, I have some small hope PE could follow that trend ;).

 

 

*Disengages lurk mode* Agreed. The day I found Troika's The Temple of Elemental Evil with its real-time exploration and turn based combat was the day I realised that I wished all the old Infinity engine games I

Edited by Sh0dan

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turn based no thank you! please continue as planned with the real time with pause like Baldurs gate and icewind dale...! plenty of turn based games out there... dont make this one of them

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I also agree the game should be turn based. I love all the IE games, but the fights were much more fun in TOEE.

 

But, what I always wondered was, why cant we have our cake and eat it too? How hard would it be to make it an option, RTwP and TB both, you choose which you want and there you go. I'm sure the answer is too much work, but I thing if they did have turn based as at least an option, I would be sold.

 

Yarazin

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I personally prefer turn based. I pitched in $20, but I'd go all the way up to $100 if it would bring us closer to a turn base option. Arcanum managed to handle turn based or real time pretty well, in my opinion.


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I dunno but I've always felt pure turn based (like ToEE, or my personal favorite, Silent Storm) is just superior. Pausable real time seemed like a concession to publishers (though I could be wrong maybe others prefer it). Especially with Xcom coming back and showing that people still have interest in purely turn based combat, I have some small hope PE could follow that trend ;).

 

 

*Disengages lurk mode* Agreed. The day I found Troika's The Temple of Elemental Evil with its real-time exploration and turn based combat was the day I realised that I wished all the old Infinity engine games I

Edited by Phinelete

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I prefer RTWP over TB just because it is a LOT faster while providing the same functionality. If I want to go on autopilot and breeze through stuff I can, but when micromanagement is needed or desired I can pause and issue commands as needed.


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1. Mixed turn based and real time with turns in the background doesn't work - see Arcanum.

2. Full turn based has very limited appeal.

3. The reason RPG's resurrected back in '99 was precisely because BG1 came up with real time with pause gameplay. Its the key innovation that keeps the game flowing and prevents it from turning into a chess match.

4. I liked TOEE a lot. It had a great combat system. However, the fights turn stale when the enemies are too weak/insignificant, too slow, have annoying status effects - ultimately in any situation when the player feels he doesn't have full control. When you watch the same 10 zombies shuffle your way at the rate of two steps per minute only to murder your favorite character for the third time you start reaching for things to throw at the monitor.

 

Turn based is still good for games that require modern weapons. Real time wouldn't make much sense in that situation (yes, I'm looking at you Fallout Tactics) as it would be impossible to control. Otherwise, its history.

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I prefer good old Baldur's Gate (well pretty all Infinity Engine) gameplay. It's tactical but seems more realistic due to a fact that that battlefield is not a chess board.

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If they made an optional turn-based mode which would work like in Frozen Synapse, then it would be pretty easy to do on top of a realtime system. Basically in Frozen Synapse, you set the orders of a short round during the planning phase, after which the orders are set and cannot be changed. Action takes place in action place and both players guys and enemies move simultaneously. You must always plan ahead and try to predict what the enemy does and the order queue is persistent, meaning you can set orders that take place over several turns. So yeah, it isn't traditional turn-based but isn't traditional RTwP either, but could be relatively easy to glue on top of any RTwP system. Presuming they make a great order queue system, which I think is an absolute minimum requirement anyway.

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I really, really, really, really do not like turn-based games. I know some/many/some-indeterminate-number of people do like it, and I don't fault them. However, I'm a huge, huge fan of the IWD/BG/NWN pause mechanic. That's a big part of why I fell in love with those games, and when I freak out and jump up and down because someone is doing a modern game based off the old Infinity Engine games, it's partially because of that type of mechanic. So I have to no, please don't do turn-based combat. Please keep it as similar to the IE standard as possible.


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There are few cRPGs with combat better than in Temple of Elemental Evil, so a big resounding YES! It's just more tactically complex.

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If they made an optional turn-based mode which would work like in Frozen Synapse, then it would be pretty easy to do on top of a realtime system. Basically in Frozen Synapse, you set the orders of a short round during the planning phase, after which the orders are set and cannot be changed. Action takes place in action place and both players guys and enemies move simultaneously. You must always plan ahead and try to predict what the enemy does and the order queue is persistent, meaning you can set orders that take place over several turns. So yeah, it isn't traditional turn-based but isn't traditional RTwP either, but could be relatively easy to glue on top of any RTwP system. Presuming they make a great order queue system, which I think is an absolute minimum requirement anyway.

 

From what I can gather, you've described a phase based combat system. Effectively what IE games aproached when you enable the 'pause at the end of the round' option.

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From what I can gather, you've described a phase based combat system. Effectively what IE games aproached when you enable the 'pause at the end of the round' option.

 

Umm... I guess. It's been eternity since I last played any of those games. But I reckon that could work pretty fine, presumed you add a the queue system. I can't emphasize the importance of that enough. Since it's reeeaallly important :D

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From what I can gather, you've described a phase based combat system. Effectively what IE games aproached when you enable the 'pause at the end of the round' option.

 

Umm... I guess. It's been eternity since I last played any of those games. But I reckon that could work pretty fine, presumed you add a the queue system. I can't emphasize the importance of that enough. Since it's reeeaallly important :D

 

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I had no idea anyone believed Temple of Elemental Evil to be such a paragon of combat. From my (admittedly mostly forgotten) memories, it was OK... but compared to something like Baldur's Gate 2? It's not even close -- BG2 was way better. I could have lived with turn-based, but I prefer real time with pause, especially if they implement the "Pause on Condition X" mechanic from the Infinity Engine.

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I had no idea anyone believed Temple of Elemental Evil to be such a paragon of combat. From my (admittedly mostly forgotten) memories, it was OK... but compared to something like Baldur's Gate 2? It's not even close -- BG2 was way better. I could have lived with turn-based, but I prefer real time with pause, especially if they implement the "Pause on Condition X" mechanic from the Infinity Engine.

 

Melee combat is much more satisfying - weapon reach, grapple, coup de grace, attacks of opportunity, etc. etc.

 

And that's only a start.

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I had no idea anyone believed Temple of Elemental Evil to be such a paragon of combat. From my (admittedly mostly forgotten) memories, it was OK... but compared to something like Baldur's Gate 2? It's not even close -- BG2 was way better. I could have lived with turn-based, but I prefer real time with pause, especially if they implement the "Pause on Condition X" mechanic from the Infinity Engine.

 

Melee combat is much more satisfying - weapon reach, grapple, coup de grace, attacks of opportunity, etc. etc.

 

And that's only a start.

 

The system was awesome and really promising. But it only made combat even more frustrating as encounter design sucked.

Edited by Delterius

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I had no idea anyone believed Temple of Elemental Evil to be such a paragon of combat. From my (admittedly mostly forgotten) memories, it was OK... but compared to something like Baldur's Gate 2? It's not even close -- BG2 was way better. I could have lived with turn-based, but I prefer real time with pause, especially if they implement the "Pause on Condition X" mechanic from the Infinity Engine.

 

Melee combat is much more satisfying - weapon reach, grapple, coup de grace, attacks of opportunity, etc. etc.

 

And that's only a start.

 

The system was awesome and really promising. But it only made combat even more frustrating as encounter design sucked.

 

Yeah, the encounters could've been better, especially in the later parts of the game. But like you've said, the system was really amazing. If done properly, it'd be a real treat.

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I'm also in the TB wagon, I prefer it over RTwP which basically what prevent me from finish the Infinity Engine games.

I would even accept some annoying DRM as long as Obsidian implements TB system, that's how much I prefer it.

But I also agree that there should be only one combat system on the game, I doubt Obsidian can implement both system successfully, so choose one (RTwP, apparently) and stay on that path.

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