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Baldur's Gate 3?


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It has been my experience that rehashing something old, merely for it to fall under the same title is a recipe for disaster.  It always ends up being a horrible mix of obligatory fanservice and attempts to recapture the past. The Baldurs Gate games were some of my favorite games of all time.  But I would prefer to see some original content that captures what made Baldurs Gate great rather than a game that exists merely to carry on the line. 

 

 

Nobody is making you buy it. If there is a 10% chance that you are utterly wrong, then you'll get a game you enjoy. If you are right, then that will show up in the reviews and feedback, allowing you to avoid wasting your money. You have little to lose by encouraging the development of more games like the BG series, regardless of the name. If you want to criticize a release, it is more productive to do so once it is out and you can rationally assess it.

 

 

 

You make a fair point.  My objection isn't really based upon wasting money though.  I do indeed have little to lose by encouraging the devlopment of games *like* the BG series.  I simply see no reason to attempt to continue the series itself.  It was wrapped up quite well, and very successful at what it did.  I'd have no issues with them using that setting.  But once you title it Baldurs Gate 3 then for win or lose you have tied its fate to the old series.  Sometimes things should end on an up note instead of continuing until they become terrible. 

 

If the only thing that will stop you is when you finally make a product so bad that people wont buy it, then you cheapen the entire experience.  Look at the last Indiana Jones movie.  An extreme example, to be sure... but how much better a product could they have done had they attempted to create a new experience rather than just arbitrarily bringing up something old because they knew they could sell tickets?  Or Star Wars?  We went from the awesome original trilogy to.... Jar Jar Binks. 

 

Again, it could be good.  But then why not make a 4?  And a 5?  Should a bad product be the only thing that ever stops a series? 

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Old skool RPGs don't use RPS to determine dialogue outcomes. L0L

Yeah, they use dice rolls, not some random determinance. Gyah! 8)

 

Damning with faint praise is still damning.

 

If you think that was one of my most 'accurate and sightful' posts you need to read more of my posts.

Bruce, will you help me start a petition to get Volourn's avatar officially changed to a photo of Grumpy Cat? :)

 

Don't tell him he looks nice today, or he'll think you mean he doesn't look nice on other days.

 

 

Lephys its an interesting dynamic when you look at the Volo type personality. He has spent so much time  on the Internet being defensive, trolling or debating with people who aren't sincere he is unable to determine when someone pays him a compliment.  This is normally a result of someone who has been in far too many bitter Internet  arguments and you start thinking that there is no such thing as normal friendly banter. Everything has an ulterior motive and most people are out to undermine you.

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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 You are going too deep. I'm just hateful. Nothing complex.

  :lol:

 

But Volo for the record if I pay someone a compliment I mean it, yes of course sometimes I am joking or being sarcastic but then its obvious.

 

And I understand sometimes my posts may not make sense or it may seem like I'm trolling but I'm not and I can always explain what I mean

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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P.S. BG3 can be made, and it can be connection to the BG series, and it can be awesome. I have tons of solid ideas for it as I'm sure anyone else with imagination can come up with their own.

I'd love to have BG3 continue the god-child story. I'd make it canon that the protagonist chose to fill the throne of Bhaal and would continue the story on a more epic level, among the divines and gods themselves.

I gazed at the dead, and for one dark moment I saw a banquet. 
 

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I'd like to have a Baldur's Gate that has little to do with the Bhaalspawn, but rather involves Baldur's Gate the city. I don't have anything against Ziets' idea, but I think a new protagonist for the (I assume) 5e ruleset would be a cool way to go.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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...

 

There is still talk about a BG3 ?!

 

IMO, the series were great for the time, but judging by later titles (like Planescape: Torment) or more importantly, by what Pillars of Eternity aspires to become, BG seems so, so lacking in so, so many aspects.

 

Don't misunderstand, I love the series, they belong in my Top 10 fav titles, but I see absolutely no reason for another game, when one could always create a new title & story --using D&D ruleset if you so enjoy, why not ?

 

D&D can be vast.

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Why should BG3 envolve aroud the story of the Bhaalspawn story ? Actually Baldur is just a city... So why another Baldur centered story when there is so many other place in the Forgotten realms ? What could be trully awesome as a new D & D game : Spelljammer !

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P.S. BG3 can be made, and it can be connection to the BG series, and it can be awesome. I have tons of solid ideas for it as I'm sure anyone else with imagination can come up with their own.

I'd love to have BG3 continue the god-child story. I'd make it canon that the protagonist chose to fill the throne of Bhaal and would continue the story on a more epic level, among the divines and gods themselves.

 

One way to continue the story would be to role-play an Avatar for the new deity. Your character starts off ordinarily enough, but through a progression of adventures discovers an affinity with the newly-elevated deity, be it good or evil. From then on your role will be to act as the champion for the cause, whether by recruiting followers, battling adversaries, or just fulfilling a duty. The deity can intervene in your favor, depending on your choices or the nature of the situation. But otherwise you would be left to develop your own prowess and select your methods. Your decisions can be subtly interlaced with the nature of the deity, so that his or her actual nature can be further revealed and refined based on the path you choose. (I.e. your character is actually acting as a mirror for the continuing growth of the new deity.)

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Why should BG3 envolve aroud the story of the Bhaalspawn story ? Actually Baldur is just a city... So why another Baldur centered story when there is so many other place in the Forgotten realms ? What could be trully awesome as a new D & D game : Spelljammer !

To be honest Baldurs Gate series in 2/3 doesn't take place in the vicinity of the titular city. So we can have new BG game take place in Sigil. The name for the BG series should be Swoard Coast or Bhaalspawn.

Yeah in all fairness "Tales of the Sword Coast" would have been a better name for the series than an expansion.  It could have been, for example, Tales of the Sword Coast: Baldur's Gate, and Tales of the Sword Coast: Shadows of Amn.

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Why should BG3 envolve aroud the story of the Bhaalspawn story ? Actually Baldur is just a city... So why another Baldur centered story when there is so many other place in the Forgotten realms ? What could be trully awesome as a new D & D game : Spelljammer !

To be honest Baldurs Gate series in 2/3 doesn't take place in the vicinity of the titular city. So we can have new BG game take place in Sigil. The name for the BG series should be Swoard Coast or Bhaalspawn.

Yeah in all fairness "Tales of the Sword Coast" would have been a better name for the series than an expansion.  It could have been, for example, Tales of the Sword Coast: Baldur's Gate, and Tales of the Sword Coast: Shadows of Amn.

 

 

As I recall, the original name for the series was going to be Iron Throne, since that group was the central villain for most of the first game. I guess maybe they considered that too spoilery. Spoiler issues are also why the series name couldn't include anything about Bhaal or Bhaalspawn: to those playing the game for the first time in 1998, your character's identity as a Bhaalspawn was supposed to be a big twist near the end, not the common CRPG knowledge it is nowadays.

 

In either case, yeah, Tales of the Sword Coast would have been a much better series name. Doesn't spoil anything and fits both the first game, the sequel and the expansions for both. 

Edited by Death Machine Miyagi
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Baldur's Gate 2 was based on 1369 Dale Reckoning. 

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/1369_DR

 

For Baldur's Gate 3, simply pick any DR after that. 

Even 1370 DR seems very interesting. Give a little twist, and put some gods of war concept, Waukeen vs Bane and maybe you can choose either side, so you have 2 final endings, evil and good, and completely different missions becoming different characters. 

 

Bane also gets resurrected in 1372 DR (don't forget all gods including Bhaal were dead in Times of Trouble, and until after Baldur's Gate 2 DR), and his greatest enemy is Cyric, who is the one murdered Bhaal. Maybe we can even , Waukeen vs Bane vs Cyric. 

 

As for Baldur's Gate, keep the damn city just for nostalgia !  why not? keep that nice old background music as well. As for last Bhaal Spawn of Gorion's Ward story, well, here are few ideas.

 

-Have the last Bhaal Spawn as Sarevok, who seems to have lost all his ambition after Bhaal's death, and now he is mortal after Imoen brought him back from his ghost-status even if Imoen used her demi-god ability. He will provide some help and even reinforce you during the game. He will stop helping you after his new family (yes he finally gets married !) decides to live in peace. Sarevok himself is satisfied with his reputation of being most evil anti-hero, although his wife hates it, and that's something they will fight over until their death :)

 

-Last Bhaal Spawn became god himself as the 2nd ending of BG2 concluded, so he simply left human's realm. In other word, no more Bhaalspawn to be resurrected. Although I am not 100% sure if god can still live in the human realm, but according to Times of Trouble, they can only play themselves in human realm by becoming mortal themselves... although they are very strong mortal with some of power they transferred from their god-states. 

 

As for title of the game, instead of Baldur's Gate III, I guess we can pick different one because story will be different, but in terms of DR and The Forgotten Realm story, it is a sequel without a twist. Like I said, keep some of Baldur's Gate element to it, such as city. Nostalgia attacks is what makes fans go crazy, and I am sure it can increase its sales production as well...  Also, keep the good old 2.5D graphic of Baldur's Gate 2 ! 

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Why should BG3 envolve aroud the story of the Bhaalspawn story ? Actually Baldur is just a city... So why another Baldur centered story when there is so many other place in the Forgotten realms ? What could be trully awesome as a new D & D game : Spelljammer !

To be honest Baldurs Gate series in 2/3 doesn't take place in the vicinity of the titular city. So we can have new BG game take place in Sigil. The name for the BG series should be Swoard Coast or Bhaalspawn.
Yeah in all fairness "Tales of the Sword Coast" would have been a better name for the series than an expansion. It could have been, for example, Tales of the Sword Coast: Baldur's Gate, and Tales of the Sword Coast: Shadows of Amn.

Bhaalspawn Chronicles.

1. Tales of the Sword Coast

2. Shadows of Ann

2ex. Ascension

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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Bhaalspawn Chronicles.

1. Tales of the Sword Coast

2. Shadows of Ann

2ex. Ascension

 

They couldn't have called Baldur's Gate 'Bhaalspawn Chronicles' for the same reason they couldn't have called Citizen Kane 'Rosebud was his Sled'. 

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Bhaalspawn Chronicles.1. Tales of the Sword Coast

2. Shadows of Ann

2ex. Ascension

They couldn't have called Baldur's Gate 'Bhaalspawn Chronicles' for the same reason they couldn't have called Citizen Kane 'Rosebud was his Sled'.

For the first game possibly, but the other two campaigns it was known the PC was a Bhaalspawn.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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Bhaalspawn Chronicles.1. Tales of the Sword Coast

2. Shadows of Ann

2ex. Ascension

They couldn't have called Baldur's Gate 'Bhaalspawn Chronicles' for the same reason they couldn't have called Citizen Kane 'Rosebud was his Sled'.
I dunno. In the second case, it would have saved everybody some aggravation. Edited by tajerio
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Bhaalspawn Chronicles.1. Tales of the Sword Coast

2. Shadows of Ann

2ex. Ascension

They couldn't have called Baldur's Gate 'Bhaalspawn Chronicles' for the same reason they couldn't have called Citizen Kane 'Rosebud was his Sled'.

For the first game possibly, but the other two campaigns it was known the PC was a Bhaalspawn.

 

 

Yeah, but what's the point of a name for the whole series that can't be used for the first in that series? The whole point of an overarching series name is to make people who liked that first game want to buy the second and the third and so on.

 

The best name is one that can roughly fit all the games, without exception. In that regard, Baldur's Gate didn't work very well because we never saw Baldur's Gate again after the first game. But that's still better than a title which can only be used for the sequel and onwards. At least when people saw the name 'Baldur's Gate 2', they knew exactly what game series was getting a sequel. 

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Long thread is long, so I didn't read everything and might repeat something that already has been said, but here are my two coppers:

 

Storywise, it would be difficult to make a BG3. Here are a bunch of ideas:

  • Direct continuity.
    Idealy you would either play as a newborn god and face a story based on this or you go on a new adventure.
    This comes with a bunch of problems though, because you would either have to make two (or three) entirely different stories, depending on the ending you got.
    To prevent this, God-Charname could be stripped of his/ her godliness in the beginning or Mortal-Charname could be promoted to a god/ godlike status anyway, due to story reasons (I see a lot of delicious conflict with Cyric stirring up here ~).
    Or a "canon" ending for ToB would have to be chosen, such as was the case with BG1 to BG2 (aka, good-ish Charname with Minsc, Dynaheir, Imoen, Khalid and Jaheira), which I wouldn't like :/
     
  • The new Protagonist.
    The new Protagonist could be a child of Charname and one of the romantic interests from BG2 (EE). Idealy you could choose in the beginning who the mother/ father is and get a different origin-story alá DA:O. This way the ending of ToB does not matter in the bigger picture. An additional origin-story could be added where Charname never had a child and someone else is the parent, one or two old companions for example (I don't know, Keldorn and his wife, maybe).
     
  • The prequel.
    You play as one of Gorion's old friends and companions.
    This way it doesn't matter what happened in the other games. We could see the corruption of Ariana, Gorion's encounter with Firkraag and a whole lot of other things.
    The big finale could be the storm on Bhaal's temple and the rescue of Charname and the other children. We could also learn who Imoen's and Sarevok's mothers where.
    Imagine the possibilities!

Well, that's all I got for the moment.

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