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Texas Republican party wants to remove the teaching of critical thinking skills in schools


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Oppose teaching of "critical thinking skills" because they, apparently, have the purpose of "challenging the student's fixed beliefs" - this could only possibly be on a mainstream political party's agenda in the US. Or wait, I forgot North Korea, China, Iran... Seriously. How the **** does this happen? I can't see those kind of opinions winning any votes in any half-civilized country.

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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Hey Krezzie you've been reading Daily Kos I see. And here I thought you had started thinking for yourself. Imagine my suprise. As far as calling you some kind of marxist why would I ever do that? It's not like you have ever posted about how terrible capitalist economics are, and how people who believe in economic freedom are evil, people who believe in God are non-human, or commented on the virtues of direct government control of corporations, right?

 

Anyway, I see you have a problem with the TRP taking issue with childrens parents being left out of the educational process of their own kids. Ok tell me what you think of this idea: School Choice. Allow parents to opt out of the public education system and send their kids to a private school of their choosing. A subsidy can be paid to the private school from the state for the cost savings of that child not being in a public school. That will help a great deal with the tuition costs and that way the parents can ensure each child recieves the education they want be it that touchy-feely Outcome Based Learning where the poor little dears won't have to take tests to prove they learned anything or the more regimented Skills Based Learning where learning is tested and *gasp* someone might fail if the do not study.

 

Of course if the parents are the problem there is another way to go; manadotory state boarding school. Take the parents out of the picture all together. I know a few countries have gone this route.

 

I wonder which of those you favor?

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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GD, I'm surprised you would support private school government subsidization.

 

Also, the tests suck and really don't demonstrate any skill other than being able to take a multiple choice test. Everyone in education will tell you that, the only people who think it is a good idea are the ones in government and not in the classroom.

 

Texas is kind of nuts, btw. They are one state in 50, so you can't take what the Republican party is doing there and extend it to the US, just like you can't take what California (although lately CA has become more moderate lately) and say that represents the rest of the country.

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How the **** does this happen? I can't see those kind of opinions winning any votes in any half-civilized country.

 

as an american, i can safely assure you that my country is only about 18% civilized. the rest fall somewhere between animals and savages


Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.

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How the **** does this happen? I can't see those kind of opinions winning any votes in any half-civilized country.

 

as an american, i can safely assure you that my country is only about 18% civilized. the rest fall somewhere between animals and savages

And which percent are you my friend?

 

Anyways, they said it was a mistake.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/texas_gops_2012_platform_accidentally_opposes_teaching_of_critical_thinking_skills.php

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Hey Krezzie you've been reading Daily Kos I see. And here I thought you had started thinking for yourself. Imagine my suprise. As far as calling you some kind of marxist why would I ever do that? It's not like you have ever posted about how terrible capitalist economics are, and how people who believe in economic freedom are evil, people who believe in God are non-human, or commented on the virtues of direct government control of corporations, right?

 

Anyway, I see you have a problem with the TRP taking issue with childrens parents being left out of the educational process of their own kids. Ok tell me what you think of this idea: School Choice. Allow parents to opt out of the public education system and send their kids to a private school of their choosing. A subsidy can be paid to the private school from the state for the cost savings of that child not being in a public school. That will help a great deal with the tuition costs and that way the parents can ensure each child recieves the education they want be it that touchy-feely Outcome Based Learning where the poor little dears won't have to take tests to prove they learned anything or the more regimented Skills Based Learning where learning is tested and *gasp* someone might fail if the do not study.

 

Of course if the parents are the problem there is another way to go; manadotory state boarding school. Take the parents out of the picture all together. I know a few countries have gone this route.

 

I wonder which of those you favor?

Just out of quesiton, but isn't the outcome based learning that the republicans now staunchly opposing, and attempting to quietly kill, a result of their own party's push during the Bush years to better the educational system with the No Child Left Behind trainwreck?

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Actually I think the US Federal Government has no business what so ever involving itself in education at all. Prior to the Carter administration that was handled by the individual states. Generally High School cirriculum was determined by what state universities expected incoming freshmen to know. Each state raised the it's education budget from it's own tax base and operated their school systems free of federal interference.

 

Over the last 20 years the federal government has pumped billions of STATE dollars into STATE education and it gets worse and worse every year. Politicians will tell you we are not spending enough but the truth is the US spends $7K per school age child per year, nearly half again as much as the next highest country (the UK) and every year we fall more and more behind everyone else. In the 1950's and 60's the US was 1 & 2 in the world respectively in quality of education. The Government took over in the 70's and we've been riding a greased pole to the basement ever since. If I had a kid here is no way in hell I'd let them attend a public school. I'd pay for private no matter what the cost. To save the US education system we need to get Uncle Sam out of it and let the individual states get back to managing their own states. It will never happen. Once Washington seizes control over something they never, ever let it go no matter how big a mess they make of it.

 

An interesting study on this subject: http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

Edited by Guard Dog

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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Just out of quesiton, but isn't the outcome based learning that the republicans now staunchly opposing, and attempting to quietly kill, a result of their own party's push during the Bush years to better the educational system with the No Child Left Behind trainwreck?

 

For one I was absolutely against NCLB. But no it was in concept at least a Skills Based system since it requires testing for advancement. It's a big subject for such a short post but there are many things wrong about it and only a few right about it.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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Anyway, I see you have a problem with the TRP taking issue with childrens parents being left out of the educational process of their own kids.

 

This is the issue? You have got to be kidding. These are the people who want to ban video games because they don't care enough about their kids to actually take an interest in their daily activities. This is corporate, through and through. That is the only possible conclusion you can take from the combination of what is in the proposal and who is proposing it. But what do I care if the U.S. decides to commit intellectual euthenasia. (Yet actual euthenasia is a boo boo.)

Edited by TrueNeutral
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I wouldn't say that it's all the governments fault. Part of it is the parents, and the fact that even though our economy and lifestyle has moved on, our school system is stuck with the agrarian timescale which significantly hampers a childs ability to retain information. Add to that the fact that parents will march into the school and demand the resignation of everyone there (or just sue the place) if something mildly contrary to their beliefs is taught, and you have a recepie for curriculum never moving beyond the 1950's.

 

We test the lowest in Science because there is a constant fight to prevent the teaching of Evolutionary biology (which is the basis for any biological science). And the sheer level of democratization of our educational system means that everyone thinks that what they know from their church, bible study, or right wing upbringing, will trump anything that science can bring to the table, because "It's only a theory" and "There are holes in it!"

 

If you want a school system to teach your kids and put them at the top of the lists of smartest kids.... you can't leave the curriculum to the parents.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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I wouldn't say that it's all the governments fault. Part of it is the parents, and the fact that even though our economy and lifestyle has moved on, our school system is stuck with the agrarian timescale which significantly hampers a childs ability to retain information. Add to that the fact that parents will march into the school and demand the resignation of everyone there (or just sue the place) if something mildly contrary to their beliefs is taught, and you have a recepie for curriculum never moving beyond the 1950's.

It is the government's fault because education falls under their responsibilities and they have shirked their duty off to the democratic process instead of just putting their foot down revamp the whole system and take education back from the states governments.

We test the lowest in Science because there is a constant fight to prevent the teaching of Evolutionary biology (which is the basis for any biological science). And the sheer level of democratization of our educational system means that everyone thinks that what they know from their church, bible study, or right wing upbringing, will trump anything that science can bring to the table, because "It's only a theory" and "There are holes in it!"

We test the lowest in Science because kids can simply walk away from the test, skip it or just answer randomly with no consequences. As they do with everything else school related, the system is not designed to teach kids its there to keep the fragile illusions of their parents alive. You can't teach kids without having them be accountable for their actions and that's why when they finally reach college and have to learn all the things that they were supposed to know and finally be responsible for themselves most drop out. It wouldn't be any harm except that 1-They waste federal aid money and 2-The US its becoming a more stupid country.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever, and stitched into its lining will be the brand name "freedom."

 

I'm more convinced every day that left or right the radicals want to make the future of Warhammer 40k become a reality, hail to the cynical moderate.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I wouldn't say that it's all the governments fault. Part of it is the parents, and the fact that even though our economy and lifestyle has moved on, our school system is stuck with the agrarian timescale which significantly hampers a childs ability to retain information. Add to that the fact that parents will march into the school and demand the resignation of everyone there (or just sue the place) if something mildly contrary to their beliefs is taught, and you have a recepie for curriculum never moving beyond the 1950's.

It is the government's fault because education falls under their responsibilities and they have shirked their duty off to the democratic process instead of just putting their foot down revamp the whole system and take education back from the states governments.

We test the lowest in Science because there is a constant fight to prevent the teaching of Evolutionary biology (which is the basis for any biological science). And the sheer level of democratization of our educational system means that everyone thinks that what they know from their church, bible study, or right wing upbringing, will trump anything that science can bring to the table, because "It's only a theory" and "There are holes in it!"

We test the lowest in Science because kids can simply walk away from the test, skip it or just answer randomly with no consequences. As they do with everything else school related, the system is not designed to teach kids its there to keep the fragile illusions of their parents alive. You can't teach kids without having them be accountable for their actions and that's why when they finally reach college and have to learn all the things that they were supposed to know and finally be responsible for themselves most drop out. It wouldn't be any harm except that 1-They waste federal aid money and 2-The US its becoming a more stupid country.

 

So you oppose Knowledge Based Learning then? It sounds that way. If so I completely agree with you. But as for taking control away from State Governments, heck Orogun, the Federal Government took education away from the states over 30 years ago. They GAVE us this crappy system we have now. US education is now the American liberals wet dream let us bask in it's glory.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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So you oppose Knowledge Based Learning then? It sounds that way. If so I completely agree with you. But as for taking control away from State Governments, heck Orogun, the Federal Government took education away from the states over 30 years ago. They GAVE us this crappy system we have now. US education is now the American liberals wet dream let us bask in it's glory.

I don't necessarily oppose Knowledge Based Learning, but rather I see it's value when used at the right level which isn't in elementary or high schools. For that I'm more in favor of a Traditional education. But GD the GOP isn't actually concerned about what kind of education their children receive but rather how education distorts their values, which is lawyer talk for "I don't want my kids learning about evolution" and "College is a liberal brainwashing camp". So there isn't an actual concern about education from either party.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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The biggest problem in public education is the parents. The government may do some ridiculous stuff to try and create accountability and improve test scores, but the parents are the ones who either actively undermine the whole process, or are simply uninterested in making sure their child gets a good education.

 

It's also ridiculous to state that all public schools are broken. It's a generalization that doesn't hold up. Every school is different, as is every school district.

 

For example, I teach at one of the best schools in California. People move from all over to get in our district, our property prices are outrageous, and I have former students attending all sorts of top universities. Guess what? It has little to do with my teaching, the curriculum we cover, or the way the school is run. We are blessed with an insanely supportive parent community, and they make sure their children come to school prepared to be the best in the state. It makes my job easy.

 

On the other spectrum, my wife works at a school that has gang problems, low test scores, teenage pregnancies, the works. The teachers at her school are really no different than the staff at mine, the curriculum put into place is the same, the administration is the same, in fact the government even gives them more money than my school. They've got great technology and everything a good school could ask for. The difference is the parents. The parent community is terrible. They don't hold their kids accountable, they don't teach their children respect, they don't put any emphasis on education.

 

In summation, I understand the government needs to be more efficient when it comes to education funding. But they aren't the real problem with education.

 

The only reason private schools seem more successful is because you are paying for it, and parents who are putting up thousands for their children's education tend to be a lot more involved in every aspect.

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Right now it seems like all that matters is that as long as peoples opinion continue to be re-inforced on their children, no matter how wrong they might be, people will be fine with our educational system.

 

The right want a Pro-US, Pro Conservative (see the textbook controversy from a year ago or two), religious school system that says god made us how we are, and have the bible and 10 commandments in every classroom, with Joe McCarthy being taught as just being a tiny bit overzealous.

 

The Left wants it to be a haven for students to learn. To the point where if a student decides he wants to slip off into the girls room with his girlfriend he can. And students will only take classes and learn things that they'd be very interested in... even if that's "advanced thugganomics" or "how to tag a moving object".

 

Both rediculous strawmen? yes, but with the political discourse at the level it currently is, there's no way that either side will realize just how stupid they truely are.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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The biggest problem in public education is the parents. The government may do some ridiculous stuff to try and create accountability and improve test scores, but the parents are the ones who either actively undermine the whole process, or are simply uninterested in making sure their child gets a good education.

 

It's also ridiculous to state that all public schools are broken. It's a generalization that doesn't hold up. Every school is different, as is every school district.

 

For example, I teach at one of the best schools in California. People move from all over to get in our district, our property prices are outrageous, and I have former students attending all sorts of top universities. Guess what? It has little to do with my teaching, the curriculum we cover, or the way the school is run. We are blessed with an insanely supportive parent community, and they make sure their children come to school prepared to be the best in the state. It makes my job easy.

 

On the other spectrum, my wife works at a school that has gang problems, low test scores, teenage pregnancies, the works. The teachers at her school are really no different than the staff at mine, the curriculum put into place is the same, the administration is the same, in fact the government even gives them more money than my school. They've got great technology and everything a good school could ask for. The difference is the parents. The parent community is terrible. They don't hold their kids accountable, they don't teach their children respect, they don't put any emphasis on education.

 

In summation, I understand the government needs to be more efficient when it comes to education funding. But they aren't the real problem with education.

 

The only reason private schools seem more successful is because you are paying for it, and parents who are putting up thousands for their children's education tend to be a lot more involved in every aspect.

I know that the parents are the problem but its only because the government has responded to pressure if they had stuck to their guns despite public outcry we may see change. But then again the whole legislation process its flawed in a way that won't allow for any radical change, its a safeguard that tends to work against the majority when unreasonable minds prevail.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Personally doubt if critical thinking can be thought. Most people who think themselves capable of independent thought will just latch themselves into the thinking of some subgroup. It's terribly boring.

You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

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Oh, well, no problem then.

 

If anything, the stance on homosexuality they published is even more shameful than the education "oversight." What a pack of bigots.

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"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia

 

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Personally doubt if critical thinking can be thought.

 

I assume you mean taught. I agree somewhat, in that it is ultimately up to the student to utilize their brains. But as a teacher, I can put them in situations where it is in their best interests to think critically. For example, taking the textbook and comparing it to other contradictory texts online or in other books is a great way to get students to question what they are reading, to not just accept authority. That's really the ultimate lesson I strive for in my classroom. Question everything.

 

I also teach them how to question respectfully, so it doesn't get messy :p

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