Hurlshort Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Exploring the "what ifs" is a really good way to get engaged in history because you really need to know what happened and why in order to try to speculate on what would happen if something changed. Something I think History classes need to look into more. I certainly hope that won't happen. We butcher enough history as is - alternative history is usually just an attempt to impose specific interpretations on times and events that just can't be bend enough to peoples liking. I usually try to phrase it as "What would your life be like if so and so didn't happen?" For example, if Charles Martel didn't stop the Umayyad advance into Europe, would Christianity still be the dominant religion in the world? Sometimes it works. It's pretty hard to get a bunch of 12 year olds to reflect on their society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Especially in key battles in wars, you do get an appreciation for what a knife egde the leaders dance on. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Yeah the viking era is interesting, especially how we northerners are today compared to our ancestors. I've never heard of the vikings interest in poetry however. Unless you mean songs and stories? Like Viking era too. That the Curonians were attacking Denmark and that its coasts in winter and in summer had to be guarded against them and other Vikings from the east is attested by the Heimskringla of Snorre Sturleson, set down during the reign of the Norwegian King Harald Hardready (1045 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Maybe part of the reason we invaded Estonia and Lithuania, althought that was several hundred years later. Edited May 6, 2012 by Gorgon Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Dinosaurs for mine - admittedly less so now but it was far more interesting to me than human history as a kid. That's prehistory, though. History is from the point that humans started writing **** down, basically. (Grossly simplified, but yeah.) I still agree. Anything pre-human is interesting to me somehow, while human history bores me. Too much of it focuses entirely on humans sending other humans to kill the humans that live on that there piece of land so they can have it for their own. If I want more of that I'll just move to the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 Speaking of obscure military history, I was reading the Timeline of Military History, and you had mention that in the 4,000 years or so of recorded history of the world, there's only about a century or so (in collected years) where no "recorded" wars have occured. Also, since the beginning of the 20th century, there has been only a single year where no member of the UK's Armed Forces has been killed on duty somewhere in the world. The majority of which were various "peacekeeping" duties rather then actual "war". Now that's an interesting distinction isn't it.... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Speaking of obscure military history, I know it's a game, but Europa Universalis III is a very bad influence, giving you all sorts of obscure, interesting, distant and sometimes unheard of cultures and conflicts as inspiration for searches on the net. While outside my normal "time zone" of interest, it was very interesting checking out the history of the Timurids and their successor state, the Mughal Empire. Much, if not most of Europe (and by extension the "western world") is actually shaped by events in the Transoxiana region. The great migrations had a lot of impact on current demographics. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Like Viking era too. it was customary for the Curonians to devastate and plunder the Danish and Swedish kingdoms and to carry away church bells and other objects. That's actually very ironic when you think about it, the Viking's raiding days were over, they convert to the religion they've been plaguing for centuries and then they get raided. I guess that goes to show how much of a pushover the Christian nations were.. until they discovered gunpowder.. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 19th and 20th century, obviously. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 My favorite list: Indo-Aryan migration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkaim Iram of the Pillars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iram_of_the_Pillars Bjarmia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarmland Sumer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer Vendel era http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendel_era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeMinx Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Favorite time periods: Ancient Rome Roman Britain Jacobite Rebellions in Scotland World War I Looking at that now, it looks like I'm a war fiend or something. It's not like that. Really. Also like the 1800s as a century, focusing on the UK and US. Fun times. Still Learning herp derp n00bity n00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Jacobite Rebellions in Scotland Are there any Stuarts left? You never know, if the Scots vote for independence they may need a new monarch. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeMinx Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Are there any Stuarts left? You never know, if the Scots vote for independence they may need a new monarch. No, not proper ones. (Although I'm sure there are some illegitimate descendants out there somewhere.) Still Learning herp derp n00bity n00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 In my opinion history is too politicized (and eurocentric). For example: http://www.ospreypublishing.com/blog/The_5_Greatest_Armies_of_All_Time/ 5 Greatest Armies of All-Time: 1. Napoleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Napoleon was outgunned and outmatched yet still managed to pull out victory after victory by creative approaches. The Mongol horde functioned like a modern army, able to pull of amazing logistical feats.. all with horses.. The last three don't even need explanation.. While Russia only won because of the sheer weight and number of it's army.. It's also why the American army isn't on that list, yet you didn't complain about that. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 In my opinion history is too politicized (and eurocentric). For example: http://www.ospreypub...es_of_All_Time/ 5 Greatest Armies of All-Time: 1. Napoleon Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 By what criteria would you measure "greatness" of an army anyway? Unless agreed upon, it will always be an opinion piece. Try mentioning the 3 "greatest" offensives offensives in WWII. If you measure them by popularity and number of pop culture references, you get a different list from when you order them by sheer scope, resources involved and ground covered. The latter being Barbarossa, The Great Manchuria offensive (Russians don't seem to make catchy names for their campaigns) and Zitadelle. Yet in western culture, things like the Africa campaigns and D-Day figures prominently instead. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Yet in western culture, things like the Africa campaigns and D-Day figures prominently instead. That's because the Africa campaigns had that magnificent bastard Rommel. Great history does tend to require some great personalities.... 1 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I'd put the Russian winter on that list. Russia as a military power really doesn't have that long of a history compared to most on that list. Same as the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Russia as a military power really doesn't have that long of a history compared to most on that list. Same as the US. I hope you are not teaching history It's military history goes back to the 13th century. Most of those on that list didn't last for 900 years. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Russia as a military power really doesn't have that long of a history compared to most on that list. Same as the US. I hope you are not teaching history It's military history goes back to the 13th century. Most of those on that list didn't last for 900 years. It's fairly well accepted that Russia doesn't become a world power until Peter the Great. We can debate about the first Tsars, different Slavic groups, and the Tartars, but until they start challenging other world powers like they did Sweden, I wouldn't consider them a military force to be reckoned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's fairly well accepted that Russia doesn't become a world power until Peter the Great. We can debate about the first Tsars, different Slavic groups, and the Tartars, but until they start challenging other world powers like they did Sweden, I wouldn't consider them a military force to be reckoned with. I suspect they are "westerners". Personally I would attribute the rise to major power to Ivan the Terrible in late 1500's, even if in the end of his reign he got his nose bloodied by the Swedish and Lithuanian armies. Moving the goal line isn't fair... we were talking military powers, not world powers “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Moving the goal line isn't fair... we were talking military powers, not world powers But the 5 military groups listed were definitely world powers. They created empires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Moving the goal line isn't fair... we were talking military powers, not world powers But the 5 military groups listed were definitely world powers. They created empires. Not that they weren't impressive achievements for their time, but only the Roman empire lasted more than 20 years. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Moving the goal line isn't fair... we were talking military powers, not world powers But the 5 military groups listed were definitely world powers. They created empires. Not that they weren't impressive achievements for their time, but only the Roman empire lasted more than 20 years. True dat. (Mongols can make a case for a bit longer, but not by much.) Edited May 8, 2012 by Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now