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Piracy


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#61
Pidesco

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Most consoles in Portugal, and I'm guessing this is true for the rest of Europe, are modded to allow to play pirated games.

The point isn't that there isn't console piracy but that it's not worth it for many people.
There is also no guarantee that it will even be still possible next console generation.


The only reason there isn't a guarantee of that is because time travel is still not possible.

#62
pmp10

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Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.
This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.

#63
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http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-16616803

#64
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It's looking positive, just as long as they don't come back next year and steamroll through re-branded versions of the bills :p

#65
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Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.
This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.


It's absurd. Everything may be cracked. It's a common cryptography issue. Globally, everything engineered can be retro engineered.
So, of course, next generation consoles will certainly be cracked. The only variable is the time people will have to wait to obtain such crack.

#66
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Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.
This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.


It's absurd. Everything may be cracked.

But that takes serious skills and commitment.
Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.
Just look as PS3 - it remains uncracked and piracy on it was impossible for years.
And that's despite the fact that Sony was embarrassingly lax with their security.

#67
sorophx

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I am fairly sure PS3 had been cracked at some point in the past? :blink:

#68
pmp10

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Hackers made many grandiose claims over their PS3 "cracking".
Reality is they enabled piracy for most of games out by then but soon got locked out with firmware revisions.

It's not that good of a example as the need was simply not there due to 360 but the my point still stands - sufficiently advanced hardware can make cracking too hard or at least too annoying for a homebrew piracy.

#69
Hassat Hunter

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Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Not really. Most do it publically, just to get money from people who want their console modified. Which are a lot in Europe.

#70
pmp10

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Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Not really. Most do it publically, just to get money from people who want their console modified. Which are a lot in Europe.

I meant those that develop tools and methods to hack the hardware.

#71
greylord

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Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.
This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.


It's absurd. Everything may be cracked.

But that takes serious skills and commitment.
Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.
Just look as PS3 - it remains uncracked and piracy on it was impossible for years.
And that's despite the fact that Sony was embarrassingly lax with their security.



WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years. IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.

It's sort of funny though, if they haven't fully cracked a game and you buy it, they'll say bring it back in a month and we'll replace it with a new and improved version. I didn't buy the game (I like to buy my games from US stores normally gamestop, which to my knowledge is typically all legit), but I have friends who do when we travel...when he was told that comment it cracked me up. There's nothing more than something like that to admit open piracy at the store...and this is out in the open in what appears to be a typical electronics store in the marketplace.

Console Piracy is HUGE in many places in Asia and elsewhere. Dwarf's PC piracy by a hundred fold. Games cost $5 for new releases, and overall sometimes it's hard to actually find a legit copy.

My downfall is since I travel I try to find cross region DVD players. I'll buy the movie in one area...and look for solutions to play it in another. For example, I'll get a lot of movies from Britain, but I can't play them in the US. So I search high and low for US DVD players which are region free (I think my PS3 is actually region free already, I think Sony did this, but I actually rarely use my PS3 as a movie player, using an actual Movie player to play movies). I have played British releases on the PS3 (Agarest War: Generations of War for example, though I think that particular game is also available for d/l via PSN in the US, I have the hardcopy disk from Britain) which means it's probably region free.

However, the way things go, even though I ALREADY OWN the movie (and maybe they'd apply it to the PS3 games as well, but I doubt it, as I said, I think the PS3 was made region free in an update a while ago for this specific reason among others) and PAID for it legally, I wonder if these evil companies would consider that piracy?

I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?

I can guarantee if they consider either of those piracy that they lost NO sales from it, though if they prosecuted they'd probably halt my support of whatever company they worked from (hence lost sales in that way...just like Ubi lost my sales to their PC division...though ironically I suppose that means they GAINED sales to their console division) [clarification, I have NEVER been prosecuted by UBI nor had I any legal complications with them, I switched due to their DRM schemes and thus my example with them of losing my PC sales due to their actions of anti-piracy...which didn't GAIN THEM any sales...just lost them sales instead].

Anyways, as I was reading an article in this thread posted above on Andrew Crossley and it linked to another thing that occurred just recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-16642369

Looks like that some sort of file sharing company bites the dust. Is this company really that big?

It says it's called Megaupload? And the people are in New Zealand? Wow the US has a broad reach to be arresting foreign citizens now. How is that done?

I'm not certain what I think on this...interesting that the BBC connects this arrest and closing to the Wikipedia and SOPA protests. I don't think that these are connected in anyway...so unsure why the news connected them...or is that the US trying to connect them to try to justify SOPA still. If this is their justification with the ability to go and arrest anyone in the world regardless of citizenship...I'm thinking perhaps it's suddenly a world concern and not just a US one?

Edited by greylord, 19 January 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#72
pmp10

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WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years.

No it wasn't.
The best that could be done until few months ago were illegal emulators written for Linux that ended with it's removal.

IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.


Actually no it isn't.
That may be the case now but not long ago it was possible to switch PS3 into factory/developer mode and run games from hard drive.
That method required no changes to the console and IIRC enabled further development of custom firmware leading which enabled piracy until firmware patches.

#73
greylord

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WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years.

No it wasn't.
The best that could be done until few months ago were illegal emulators written for Linux that ended with it's removal.

IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.


Actually no it isn't.
That may be the case now but not long ago it was possible to switch PS3 into factory/developer mode and run games from hard drive.
That method required no changes to the console and IIRC enabled further development of custom firmware leading which enabled piracy until firmware patches.


My mistake. I'd call it a crack, but I guess it doesn't match what some call a crack. It still allowed people to play pirated games regardless however. If it didn't, then there'd be no reason why they've been selling the pirated PS3 games on the markets for so long or had them available for d/l online.

As I said, I actually never tried the pirated games myself (friends did) so I have no actual experience running or trying to run any of the Pirated games or how it was done (though I have run games from other regions, but as I said, I think that's allowed by the PS3 OS and that it's now region free), so it's from that perspective.

So, whether it's running it in factory/developer mode or whatever, that it allows you to play pirated games to me seemed to be a crack. Not an expert in pirating, as I suppose is apparant by my terminology, probably since I don't technically pirate (from my definition, though the definitions are cloudy these days...is putting a movie I already own and transferring it via a program onto my Ipod piracy? Or is playing PS3 games I legally buy from other regions across the world Piracy?)

Edited by greylord, 19 January 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#74
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I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?


Perhaps not piracy, but illegal in many places. Many countries (and I belive the US for instance, Sweden for sure) has laws that prohibit circumvention of DRM. So if the DVDs are protected in some way (which I believe all DVDs are, could be wrong about that though), copying them is illegal.

#75
greylord

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I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?


Perhaps not piracy, but illegal in many places. Many countries (and I belive the US for instance, Sweden for sure) has laws that prohibit circumvention of DRM. So if the DVDs are protected in some way (which I believe all DVDs are, could be wrong about that though), copying them is illegal.


DRM on DVDs? Pretty poor DRM. All I have to do is put it in the computer, copy the file and then render it into a format the IPhone can read. I thought DRM didn't let you do that type of stuff. I literally don't hack the DVD or anything like that. It's a simple put it in the DVD drive, via Windows 7 or XP, and drag and drop the file into my videos folder and then render it and put it in iTunes. Actually I can play it on Itunes without even dragging it to the desktop, and even supposedly transfer it to the Ipod, but it doesn't actually transfer unless I render the files into an mp4 or format that it can read.

Edit: If that's bypassing the DRM, since it's done via Windows, I'd imagine it's Windows OS that enables the bypass, even if it's done innocently...does that mean Win7 is a big offender on the piracy front by definition then? It would be the actual item bypassing the DRM in reality, since I have no idea how to actually bypass DRM normally. Microsoft willfully creating a way for people unknowingly to bypass DRM... Now that's a wierd thought. Anyways on with my original thought.

Plus, it's for personal use only and I'm using it that way instead of the DVD if I put it on the Iphone or Ipod. They consider that illegal in some places? Talk about draconian.

Edited by greylord, 19 January 2012 - 03:48 PM.


#76
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Plus, it's for personal use only and I'm using it that way instead of the DVD if I put it on the Iphone or Ipod. They consider that illegal in some places? Talk about draconian.

If we leave out 'right' or 'wrong' for a moment then, yes, it's illegal in a number of countries. DVD's (movies anyway) usually come with a copyright notice telling you that you are not allowed to distribute or duplicate the content of the disc in any shape or form.

#77
greylord

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Plus, it's for personal use only and I'm using it that way instead of the DVD if I put it on the Iphone or Ipod. They consider that illegal in some places? Talk about draconian.

If we leave out 'right' or 'wrong' for a moment then, yes, it's illegal in a number of countries. DVD's (movies anyway) usually come with a copyright notice telling you that you are not allowed to distribute or duplicate the content of the disc in any shape or form.


I don't think I've ever actually read a copyright notice or paid attention if the disks had it or not to tell the truth. I suppose I should have. So if it's a UK movie, not available in the US for download...and it's copied off a UK disk in the US...or a US disk in the UK...or even better, either one in Japan or Korea, which one is claiming who broke what law?

I need to pop in a movie and see if that warning is actually on there!

It's kind of messed up. People record movies off of TV, or music off the radio and pay nothing...yet someone like me who paid for the movie and then proceeds to use the disk as back up because our primary movie watching time is on the plane or train are the ones that they actually have made laws saying we're doing something illegal...even though we have no desire to distribute or really duplicate for anyone else...it's simply for private viewing! There has to be a clause that says something like duplicating or showing for those OTHER than personal means...surely.

I could swear that even then you're allowed one copy for PERSONAL backup in some nations.

Perhaps it's a pure Hollywood US thing that has tried to stretch it's reach across the world? Then again I travel a LOT (read most) in the US so I guess they'd consider me culpable.

(Edit: Are you certain that law actually applies to personal usage on an Iphone or Ipod? Hasn't it referred to hard copy in the past rather than soft copy on a personal item when you can only watch one of them at a time anyways? I KNOW many of the DVDs nowdays have noted that this was done, and I think noted it legal or whatever since they now actually include these digital copies along with the DVD itself making this process to put it on my Ipod even easier. Surely they aren't saying, go ahead and break the law so we can go ahead and prosecute you? I'd probably think that's akin to bait and switch or something.)

Edited by greylord, 19 January 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#78
Orchomene

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I could swear that even then you're allowed one copy for PERSONAL backup in some nations.


I can confirm this, it's the case in France. Yet it remains illegal to modify the content of a product, even for personal use (it's linked to the licenses). But if the content has a way to block personal replication, modifying it to allow replication for personal use is illegal but the content itself (blocking replication) is also illegal. Then, the replication is not generally condemned by justice because such companies putting illegal (well, at the limit of legality at least) protections don't sue people modifying the content.

The illegality of the modification of content is to protect artists and developers from deviation of their creation. Of course, it's delicate to separate the artistic content from what is its material or immaterial support. It's easy for a book (the content is what is written, the support is the paper, ink ...) or a material product. For a digital product, there is no clear separation.

#79
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Meanwhilst...

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#80
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I find this "take downs" highly silly. It has no purpose and is like fighting against windmills.




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