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Bakercompany86

Official Dungeon Siege 3 Community Request Thread

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P.S. - I realize you are a moderator, Tigranes. Please don't ban me! ;)

 

I simply felt like you were shutting down my idea because you have a solution that works for you and many others.

 

I am looking for a solution that works for me - and as a paying customer with a voice, I feel I have a very valid and relevant concern. Plus, my suggestion could theoretically even boost the sales of this game. I am not the only person with an issue with this game's camera. I only want the game to be better. As I stated in my first post, I like this game and I love Obsidian. Please don't view me as hostile. I don't mean to offend.

 

Consider comments like this on this forum:

DS1 had no sky and that was understandable at that time. (I know the mechanics behind that)

DS2 had no sky and it was dissappointing and annoying for its pariod.

DS3 STILL has no sky and a "Blaire Witch" camera that gives me headaches.

He may have been whining a lot in the rest of his post, but you have to admit, even if you don't agree with someone's point of view, that doesn't mean their money isn't green.

Obsidian wants money. I have an idea that would make the game better for theoretically thousands of other potential buyers. My idea would take little-to-no time at all to implement. Case closed, in my eyes.

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It's not a question of 'going forward', it's a question of design. The perspective difference does change the way you experience a game. Personally, I'd hate DS3 if, for isntance, we were stuck in the KOTOR camera. In fact, I thought one of the key reasons KOTOR combat was such a horrible mess is because it's really hard to see what's going on or target everything easily. I know you see it differently and I appreciate that. I just think it's important people don't extrapolate what they like as the "way forward". (BTW, for FNV, Obsidian had no choice. It would have been extremely difficult to make the Gamebryo engine go 'isometric'.)

 

Anyway, it's clear a lot of epople want changes in the DS3 camera - what's not clear is how many people just want MP camera untethered, how many just want a wider zoom for MP, how many want a over-the-shoulder view, how many people want some/all of that, etc. I can understand people wanting over the shoulder for DS3, but I don't know how fun it would be to actually fight in that view.

 

In any case, sorry to be a sourpuss, but over the shoulder view is the most unlikely thing to happen at this stage. I mean ,they'd have to go and make ceilings for EVERYTHING. ;)

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I'd be willing to wager that as soon as community-made mods start to surface (if they surface), someone will find a way to tweak the exact angle the camera sits from the ground. I could care less if there are ceilings. I don't necessarily need to look that high. I just want to see almost parallel to the ground.

 

I personally loved the KotOR camera. KotOR 1 & 2 are the reason I am an RPG fan. Those two games changed my life.

Therein lies the drastic difference in our preferences. I want to point out again though, I don't want anyone "stuck in the KOTOR camera", as you put it. Options, man, I just want options. ;)

 

btw - I just played DS3 couch co-op a little bit ago. I still hate the RTS camera style, but it was still pretty fun. I have to say, DS3 is a magically dope-a-licious game... except for the camera. :x:(

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Again, if you were looking almost parallel to the ground, what you see includes the sky and ceiling. I mean, just stand up where you are now, and look straight ahead. There are ceilings. Without ceilings and skyboxes, everything would just cut off at a certain height then you'd see a big grey expanse or something. And yes, that woudl take up 10-20% of the screen when you look straight ahead.

 

So yeah, if somebody found a way to hack it in, great - gives people options. But if Obsidian did it in a patch they could never do that - you can't patch and say "new camera mode available" if all the ceilings are missing.

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I see your point entirely, but it kinda depends what's actually there. There are moments when the camera pans around to show you your surroundings, and I've seen ceilings and sky. You could be correct in assuming they are only there for the quick-pans, but who knows until it either gets patched or hacked. It's actually plausible (however unlikely) that the textures for the ceilings in every environment are already there, we just don't see them. Most 3D textures are only visible from one direction anyway. You have to picture skies, walls, the ground, and ceilings like two-way mirrors. If you have ever accidentally fallen through the floor of a game map and looked up, you know what I mean. We quite possibly could be looking through an existing ceiling during the entire game.

We simply don't know right now. All of the outside levels wouldn't need anything but a skydome image anyway.

 

Aside from that, let's say there are no ceiling and sky images in place. These textures and images exist within the game, we've seen them. I've worked with game engines before, and it's as simple as making a selection of the entire sky and pressing a quick-key to assign an image - and considering the limited amount of environments in this game, it wouldn't take long to apply them all. Plus, if you didn't look completely parallel to the ground, it would be difficult to see the ceiling and/or sky depending on where you are. Details, my friend. Details.

 

There would be a significant change at 15 degrees from the floor instead of the 45 we have now.

I think it's helpful that the camera can currently look down at a nearly 90 degree angle, I do.

I just don't see why the camera bottoms out at 45 degrees when you try to look ahead of where you're running.

It would mean less bad-guys being able to shoot projectiles at you from off-screen, without having to run in several directions to find out which direction you're being attacked from. Plus, you could gaze at your surroundings much easier to immerse yourself in the game world.

 

After all is said and done, it's called "flexibility". The camera should be able to accommodate someone of your tastes and mine seamlessly. It can be done.

 

I thought this out quite thoroughly before making my first post.

 

IMG00036.GIF

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Devs have commented that OTS would be difficult because the game has no skyboxes. The XML files appear to suggest that a few areas do, but that may simply be placeholders. So it's pretty certain that there is a substantial amount of skyboxes/ceilings missing. Now, quick-fix copy-paste skyboxes won't be too difficult, since the Onyx engine is clearly capable of this, but ceilings would take more work.

 

So what it comes down to is this - the current zoom-in view offers as close to OTS a view as is possible without rendering ceilings and skyboxes. Maybe it can afford to tilt up a tiny bit more. But a substantial change? Again, I wouldn't mind seeing this if it gives us more options - but I'm not sure how much can be done.

 

Note that I'm talking about the zoom-in view, not the default 'iso'-style view. The zoom-in view is already quite close to your 15', it's the 'iso' that's ~45.

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I always wondered why the camera couldn't be tilted more. Now I know the reason. Until I got used to the camera angle, it always felt like I juuuuust couldn't quite see far enough ahead of me, like I had to literally lean forward and try and peer up along my television screen. :p


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Exactly!

 

I didn't realize that Obsidian already made a public statement about the sky boxes.

I tell you what though, I'd play it that way even if the sky boxes were pitch black above the horizon.

I just want to find that one single line in that one single file somewhere that controls that "glass floor" for camera angle.

I will find it. :) Someone out there nerdier than me that knows about these things is just as annoyed as I am.

I really like this game, and if I end up beating it before the community-made camera mod comes out, so be it, but I'd play it through again just to able to see.

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I always wondered why the camera couldn't be tilted more. Now I know the reason. Until I got used to the camera angle, it always felt like I juuuuust couldn't quite see far enough ahead of me, like I had to literally lean forward and try and peer up along my television screen. :)

 

I really don't see the benefit of tilting the camera even more. I'd rather have the camera zoomed out.

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There are a few (very few) places where the camera zooms in too much and tilting it a bit up would be handy.

 

BTW, if an arena/boss rush/horde/last stand mode gets in, how about using either the Causeway as the arena, or changing landscape, DMC Bloody Palace style?

Edited by Oner

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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There are a few (very few) places where the camera zooms in too much and tilting it a bit up would be handy.

 

how about using either the Causeway as the arena

+1

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There are a few (very few) places where the camera zooms in too much and tilting it a bit up would be handy.

 

how about using either the Causeway as the arena

+1

 

"The world that forgot how to be"

 

Sounds awesome to me. I'd love to learn more about the land below the Causeways.

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I'd love to learn more about the land below the Causeways.

I'd like to see the land in all it's glory, but no backstory expansion please. It's vague and that's good.

Obs picked up some l337 emergent storytelling skillz during F:NV's development, they could use that instead.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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I've definitely been curious about what seems to be spots in the Causeway that look like more areas for magic bridges & portals. eg, they would seem to be, imo, places for DLC to jump off from, if that makes sense. I'm hoping, at least.

 

I don't want them explained overmuch either. Sometimes it's better to leave things a mystery.


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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It seems the fixes are targeting only the PC version. I own DS3 on console!!! I wish the fixes for consoles.

 

*facepalm*

 

I'm glad that you enjoy the game enough that you want it improved (that is a good thing!). But I think you need to broaden your scope of understanding. Read some developer notes and comments as well as listen to this PodCast http://ia700500.us.archive.org/11/items/Cl...Episode_056.mp3.

 

The game was designed around consoles and then ported to computer. Which means they have a console focus for this game.

 

Normally PC gamers would complain to high heaven about this but Obsidian did a decent job of making the average PC gamer feel like they considered them and their style of gaming as well. Although they sort of botched the Keymapping issue but only because they ran out of time and had to hand the game over to SquareEnix to publish the game. Which is why Obsidian is doing damage control and giving the PC gamers a "hotfix patch" in order to lessen the blow-back ire from the PC crowd.

 

Most of the other issues are shared across platforms so you can rest assured your console issues are being fully considered by Obsidian.

 

You bet the fixes will come to PC faster because of the simple fact that is easier "uploading" a PC patch. On consoles, you have to pass MS certification and pay for the second patch and forth (the first one, at least as stated some years ago, is free). The good thing about console games are that they usually have much less things to patch than PC versions, but we, console users, are used to be left behind, even when the game is developed firts on consoles. I?ve seen that happening several times

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You bet the fixes will come to PC faster because of the simple fact that is easier "uploading" a PC patch. On consoles, you have to pass MS certification and pay for the second patch and forth (the first one, at least as stated some years ago, is free). The good thing about console games are that they usually have much less things to patch than PC versions, but we, console users, are used to be left behind, even when the game is developed firts on consoles. I?ve seen that happening several times

 

Dude... what the hell are you talking about? I have an XBOX360 and have 100s of games. I can't think of ONE GAME where I had to pay for a patch... EVER. DLC bundled patches maybe, but that's bad business. Stand-alone patches are free and usually auto-update when you start a game.

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You bet the fixes will come to PC faster because of the simple fact that is easier "uploading" a PC patch. On consoles, you have to pass MS certification and pay for the second patch and forth (the first one, at least as stated some years ago, is free). The good thing about console games are that they usually have much less things to patch than PC versions, but we, console users, are used to be left behind, even when the game is developed firts on consoles. I?ve seen that happening several times

 

Dude... what the hell are you talking about? I have an XBOX360 and have 100s of games. I can't think of ONE GAME where I had to pay for a patch... EVER. DLC bundled patches maybe, but that's bad business. Stand-alone patches are free and usually auto-update when you start a game.

 

I think he meant the developer/publisher has to pay for the patches. (Which makes patching games on consoles even more unattractive.)

 

From the publisher license agreement

 

All Title Updates for Software Titles are subject to approval by Microsoft. Publisher may releaseone Title Update per Software Title free of charge. Any additional Title Updates proposed by Publisher may be subject to a reasonable charge.
Edited by Tigranes

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to be sure-

*arena mode

*higher lvl cap

*higher difficulty

 

Theres a good start. You folks've created a mighty fine approach to dungeon crawlers by finally putting the action in ARPG. Now just give us more of it and in longer intervals. I, like my brothers-in-arms of these boards, are quickly becoming overwhelmed by the Sacred2 horde. You must reinforce our supply lines or we will surely perish.

Godspeed, Obsidian.

 

And comrades, keep fighting the good fight!

---

psn: deinon

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I really don't see the benefit of tilting the camera even more. I'd rather have the camera zoomed out.

 

You don't need to discredit my idea just to share your own. :thumbsup:

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I really don't see the benefit of tilting the camera even more. I'd rather have the camera zoomed out.

 

You don't need to discredit my idea just to share your own. :thumbsup:

 

Oh thats my opinion. Didn't want to discredit anything.

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Oh thats my opinion. Didn't want to discredit anything.

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstanding. Sorry.

 

Ultimately, it sounds like people want three camera fixes.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Multiplayers want separate screens.

 

Old-school RPG and RTS top-down players would like the camera able to be zoomed out more so they can see more of their surroundings.

 

New school RPG players wouldn't mind seeing an empty sky box, and would rather be able to zoom in more and look forward once in a while.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

I really wish I knew more about modding. I've used a couple game engines (literally) and I know how to mess with maps, textures, and audio, but where the numbers that control the things such as camera height and angle are located is beyond me. I'd do it my dang self and share it. I looked in the .ini files but they're pretty bare. Nothing really useful in there to tweak.

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The good news is that Dungeon Siege III is nearly flawless in every other aspect, so I can't imagine them having to work on much else. It's not like Brink or Hunted where its such a buggy mess they're going to spend months trying to figure those out. I don't think I encountered a single bug or glitch, so maybe they're working on the camera issues now.

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Oh thats my opinion. Didn't want to discredit anything.

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstanding. Sorry.

 

Ultimately, it sounds like people want three camera fixes.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Multiplayers want separate screens.

 

Old-school RPG and RTS top-down players would like the camera able to be zoomed out more so they can see more of their surroundings.

 

New school RPG players wouldn't mind seeing an empty sky box, and would rather be able to zoom in more and look forward once in a while.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

For reasons I posted in the other thread the first two "should" be integrated directly in the game. The third one should maybe just an easier option to mod in/ini solution. Otherwise there would just be complaints.

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I think this game should be able to support a full over the shoulder 3rd person camera and an isometric camera view (or at least the semi-iso camera we have now). Too Human did it, so what's holding Obsidian back?

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