Best ARPG gameplay ever?

[Renevent]

I've watched several play through's...the item system is not as deep or complex as the PC arpg variants, neither is the skill system. Even without that it was pretty obvious from the demo. Most of the stats were heavily repeated as well.

 

With that said I do agree that doesn't mean it's a bad system or the game can't be fun...I'm going to pick the game up and I am pretty sure I will have a good time and the item system will definitely be a part of driving force.

[LadyCrimson]

The skill system doesn't appear to be as complex, agreed. Altho one could argue with Diablo2, at least (I haven't played a lot of the others mentioned) in that the lower tier, early skills were initially useless - until they put in the synergies. But even the syngeries didn't make those lower skills useful as skills themselves....they only increased the power of the higher skills. I never saw a lvl 99 Sorc running around based on using IceBolt to kill most things, for example.

 

But Diablo2 & Titan Quest was more interesting in the variety of ways you could combine all those skills for different builds with the SAME character. The replay value using only the Paladin or only the Sorc was pretty high. In DS3, from what I've seen in the demo at least, I think I'm going to feel that once I've played Lucas, I won't feel a need to replay Lucas to try a different Lucas-build. Know what I mean? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it felt anyway.

[rc deaths agent]

Most of what he says is true, though. Ok not sure about the butt comment, but you are plainly ignorant to the differences between the item system in Diablo II vs Dungeon Siege III.

 

Just as a taste...here is the affix system in Diablo II:

 

http://www.diablowiki.com/Affixes_%28Diablo_II%29

 

What I saw in DS3 was nothing even close to just the basic affixes/prefixes available in Diablo 2...forget about even bringing in the sheer amount of combinations, sets, uniques, gems, and rune words that all add into a pretty substantial and deep item system.

 

Or look at Titan Quest...and lets forget the fact it has THOUSANDS of regular items, but consider this:

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/search/...function=search

 

Over 1700 set items alone...thats over 1700 items that all are absolutely unique both in looks and in stats. Every item you put on in has a different look and the entire items system has a whole litany of different possible stats and combinations. Again, this is just the special gear, Titan Quest has a deep and robust random item system as well who know how many individual item art and stats.

 

If you can't see the difference, that's only because you are either unable to (never really played) or just stubbornly refuse to.

 

Regarding how many people play Diablo II, to this very day (10 years later) is still played by THOUSANDS of people online every single day. The fact you don't know anyone who plays doesn't mean this isn't true.

Yup. I long for the day a console game (or any game for that matter) has as good a loot system as that game...lol. Probably NEVER happen unless D3 comes over.

[Renevent]

Yup. I long for the day a console game (or any game for that matter) has as good a loot system as that game...lol. Probably NEVER happen unless D3 comes over.

 

I believe Blizzard all but confirmed Diablo 3 on the consoles, so that would be really cool.

 

Agreed though, I really do not know why console developers are so adverse to bringing really in depth and robust systems (items/leveling/ect) to the consoles. I think it's kind of insulting too towards console players...are they not smart enough to hand the possibility of making a poor choice? I think there's a lot of console gamers who would really love to play a game like that.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Renevent

[Sannom]

Just a quick question: It's 2011. This is released on PC. Why does it need a patch to have this most basic of all functions since the beginning of time?

I think it's because it comes from a genre that is under-represented on PC but had some great games on console (Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, etc.), and most of the developpers probably played them on the consoles. Intuitively, I was skeptical of how they could translate the controle scheme on PC. A console player can use only one finger for attacks and all abilities, while the PC player uses four. A console gamer can use both hands for combinations (blocking and empowering), while the PC gamer can only use one. A PC is not good for this kind of game that uses a lot of 'instantaneous' input.

 

From the demo, DS3 appears to be of the same vein as the previous games, where I'm going to like the items that drop, but the sense of serious number-crunching, addictive feel of "MUST HAVE THIS" will not be there (for me).

That must be it, I just hate number crunching in games. Heck, I didn't even like the transition from AD&D to D&D 3.5 in CRPGs because of this. I liked myself some 'obscurity' in game mechanics, just not as much as what Bioware put in Dragon Age.

[hopfrog16]

I always find it amusing when people, who have apparently not played even half the game, claim to be some kind of expert about the game.

 

That said, I *am* going to say that in terms of item variety, I always found the items in DS1 & DS2 a bit lacking in comparison to the Diablo's. By this I don't mean they were "bad" - but there was something about that them that I just didn't find...addictive. They weren't worth boss-hunting many many times for. Diablo's, man I wanted that Ring of Zodic or that Unique mage orb and I was gonna get it if it killed me. Diablo's items (and stats, in a way) are about serious number crunching. Sure, it may not seem like much of a difference, but if you put several .10 teleport speed items together, all of a sudden you could teleport like a fiend.

 

From the demo, DS3 appears to be of the same vein as the previous games, where I'm going to like the items that drop, but the sense of serious number-crunching, addictive feel of "MUST HAVE THIS" will not be there (for me). I don't think there's anything wrong with that, mind you...but item concepts, while similar, are most definitely not the same, nor as complex. But it could be if I play the whole DS3 game, I'll change my mind. It's not like I saw that much in the demo.

 

This. ^

 

Also, I still play D2 from time to time as well. =) For those of you who don't know, D2 has a GREAT modding community that's still going strong.

 

http://phrozenkeep.hugelaser.com/index.php <- Check it out. =)

 

I don't think that D2 mods as well as DS1 or NWN (no easily accessible tools until much later, and the game isn't as flexible in terms of alteration by far), but some of the mods are just plain brilliant.

[Oner]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-dungeon-siege/706107

[Nathaniel Chapman]

In another thread we mention that we are implementing keybinding soon. It'll be a patch that will be coming out.

Just a quick question: It's 2011. This is released on PC. Why does it need a patch to have this most basic of all functions since the beginning of time?

 

To be fair, Starcraft 2 came out last year, was PC exclusive, and implemented keybinding in a post-release patch.

[MonkeyLungs]

I think it's because it comes from a genre that is under-represented on PC but had some great games on console (Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, etc.), and most of the developpers probably played them on the consoles.

 

I never thought of Dark Alliance of CoN or Return to Arms as anything but Action RPG's ... same genre as Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Sacred, PSO etc. In fact action rpg's are underrepresnted on consoles. PC has far greater variety in ARPG.

 

You might consider them different genre because of the platform maybe?

 

Also, Dark Alliance and especially the Norath games from PS2 are extremely FEATURE RICH gaming titles that completely overshadow the feature list of DS3. DS3 is a very feature weak title. It's very simple, very few gameplay modes, no persistent characters, no new game +, super gimped MP, etc. Champions of Norath is LIGHTYEARS ahead of this game.

[Alpha]

I agree with Ladycrimsom.

[MonkeyLungs]

I agree with her assessment of the character system as well. Not very much replay value within each class because not very much variety in making completely different types of builds. I would call it dumbing down, she is way nicer than me.

[MonkeyLungs]

The skill system doesn't appear to be as complex, agreed. Altho one could argue with Diablo2, at least (I haven't played a lot of the others mentioned) in that the lower tier, early skills were initially useless - until they put in the synergies. But even the syngeries didn't make those lower skills useful as skills themselves....they only increased the power of the higher skills. I never saw a lvl 99 Sorc running around based on using IceBolt to kill most things, for example.

 

But Diablo2 & Titan Quest was more interesting in the variety of ways you could combine all those skills for different builds with the SAME character. The replay value using only the Paladin or only the Sorc was pretty high. In DS3, from what I've seen in the demo at least, I think I'm going to feel that once I've played Lucas, I won't feel a need to replay Lucas to try a different Lucas-build. Know what I mean? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it felt anyway.

 

quoted for posterity.

[toastification]

From the demo, DS3 appears to be of the same vein as the previous games, where I'm going to like the items that drop, but the sense of serious number-crunching, addictive feel of "MUST HAVE THIS" will not be there (for me). I don't think there's anything wrong with that, mind you...but item concepts, while similar, are most definitely not the same, nor as complex. But it could be if I play the whole DS3 game, I'll change my mind. It's not like I saw that much in the demo.

DS3's is a hybrid. It between a game like Darksiders and a game like Diablo. Just for that angle alone the game should survive and Obsidian should be allowed to expand on it with a stronger statistical system (more varied item attributes, more passives, etc.) It doesn't really have much re-playability value, given what I am seeing in character builds, every character seems to have 2 distinct flavors as to how to build them.

 

Overall, I would say that as far ARPG combat gameplay goes, it is fundamentally more deep/involved than a game like Diablo's; but as far as character building goes it is vastly inferior to those. Item variety late game is pretty much what you saw in the demo, just with higher attributes, some uniques, and prettier looks.

 

Don't get this game if you want a Diablo/Torchlight/TitanQuest/etc. type. It is not, it doesn't try to be those. Don't get it if you are one of the mythical DS1/2 fanboys, you are going to be offended at how this is different from them. View this game is an experiment; a hybrid between classic console action games, Dungeon Siege 2, and a story centric RPG. Hopefully, should the next offering from Obsidian come, it will continue to grow along the pathway of intertwining the three game concepts.

 

 

Incidentally, this game gives a good taste of the resource ideas embedded in Diablo 3's Monk and Barbarian; as well as non-health potion spamming combat. Personally, I like it, and it confirms my belief that Blizzard did the right thing by nuking mana for most classes and health pots. It's probably not quite an analogue because of the console action combat component, but I can see how the idea of Health Orbs, Fury, and Spirit (of the D3 stuff) isn't fundamentally flawed. It just needs tight balance.

Edited June 18, 2011 by toastification

[MonkeyLungs]

Too Human did the whole revamp the resources thing already. Health orbs drop from enemies, combo meter for specials builds by being good at combat. Really good players can build their combo meter super fast by using alot of variety in their attacks and taking no damage. Bad payers get less combo meter.

[metamag]

Didn't Diablo 2 at first have much simpler character skills and builds and only much later there was a big patch that introduced synergies into it?

[Tigranes]

D2 synergies only came months and months later in a patch. Of course, that itself is a testament to Blizzard's extraordinary patch ethic.

[hopfrog16]

D2 synergies only came months and months later in a patch. Of course, that itself is a testament to Blizzard's extraordinary patch ethic.

 

Hmmm... I thought it was at least a year later, but I may be wrong on that.

Edited June 18, 2011 by hopfrog16

[Sannom]

I never thought of Dark Alliance of CoN or Return to Arms as anything but Action RPG's ... same genre as Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Sacred, PSO etc. In fact action rpg's are underrepresnted on consoles. PC has far greater variety in ARPG.

 

You might consider them different genre because of the platform maybe?

No, I just don't consider Diablo and DS to be 'action' RPGs. They're combat-and-loot-heavy, but so is Icewind Dale. Action, for me, resides in instantaneous response from the controler, with little to none contextual action. Diablo doesn't fit completely, and Dungeon Siege even less so with its party management and 'active pause' feature.

[LadyCrimson]

D2 synergies only came months and months later in a patch. Of course, that itself is a testament to Blizzard's extraordinary patch ethic.

 

Hmmm... I thought it was at least a year later, but I may be wrong on that.

Synergies appeared with Patch 1.10, which was about 3 years after the release of the Diablo2 and about 2 years after LoD was released.

[hopfrog16]

D2 synergies only came months and months later in a patch. Of course, that itself is a testament to Blizzard's extraordinary patch ethic.

 

Hmmm... I thought it was at least a year later, but I may be wrong on that.

Synergies appeared with Patch 1.10, which was about 3 years after the release of the Diablo2 and about 2 years after LoD was released.

 

Awesome, thanks. =)