Nightshape Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Its just a nightly build, not the source code or anything. I doubt the people who were planning on buying the game are gonna go "Oh, guess Ill cancel my preorder and just play this bug-riddled mess right now instead!" That's what I would do if I had a good enough computer, even if just for the campaign. wait you're saying that if you had a good enough computer you WOULD steal crysis 2? Piracy isn't stealing. It's like borrowing. You can tell me that when I come round to your place, eat your food, and then vomit it back up claiming I was only borrowing it. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 No, piracy isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. The two are different things. Edit: It certainly isn't "borrowing," however. It's stealing. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 When the relationship between PC developers and PC gamers starts to mirror a hostage situation, it's time to get out of the market. To wit, pinning the blame on Crytek for this is breathtakingly stupid. I wasn't necessarily yelling at crytek, but at the PC publishers in general who seem to have decided that Demo's are just not worth it, or ONLY for multiplayer value as a beta. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) It's stealing. What did you lose? As for this beta release, well, yeah, apparently it certainly is one, heh. Edited February 12, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 No, piracy isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. The two are different things. Edit: It certainly isn't "borrowing," however. It's stealing. No, it's not. It's copyright infringement. When you steal something, you deprive the victim of the thing itself. When you pirate something, you deprive the victim of potential profit. The two are not equivalent. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 No, piracy isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. The two are different things. Edit: It certainly isn't "borrowing," however. It's stealing. No, it's not. It's copyright infringement. When you steal something, you deprive the victim of the thing itself. When you pirate something, you deprive the victim of potential profit. The two are not equivalent. Oh joy. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal *sigh* You've ended up with something that doesn't belong to you, you're stealing it.... *ahem* or should I say "to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment". I have to ask... Are you a pirate? Because you seem to think they're not equivalent. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Odd how you're not charged with the same. Funniest conspiracy theory from release log - "People are so Naive, no matter what this game will sell like hotcakes, this is probably just a publicity stunt to help build hype Edited February 13, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Odd how you're not charged with the same. Hell, who knows what the law will be, based on some geographical region. Even if it wasn't illegal, would it be right? No, because the result is that you end up with something you shouldn't own. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Is it really already time to have another piracy debate again? I thought we still had a month or two. Whatever you call it, or whatever legal class you put it into, it is wrong to do. Let's just leave it at that and stop trying to justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Oh joy. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal *sigh* You've ended up with something that doesn't belong to you, you're stealing it.... *ahem* or should I say "to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment". I have to ask... Are you a pirate? Because you seem to think they're not equivalent. Stealing implies that the victim loses possession of the thing that is stolen. Piracy does not. Equating the two actions is just as silly as calling piracy "borrowing." Piracy is much closer to counterfeiting than to stealing. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Piracy is much closer to counterfeiting than to stealing. Not really, as it doesn't take a team of 100+ people years to make currency. I'd say it is a lot closer to stealing than counterfeiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Piracy is much closer to counterfeiting than to stealing. Not really, as it doesn't take a team of 100+ people years to make currency. I'd say it is a lot closer to stealing than counterfeiting. Counterfeiting (which isn't restricted to money, by the way) is illegally imitating/producing a product. Stealing is taking it from those who have already made it. Piracy quite clearly falls in the former category. In fact, it's often grouped with counterfeit goods in studies. It's almost never grouped with theft, because the economic impact is much more comparable to that of counterfeiting than of theft. Edited February 13, 2011 by Oblarg "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i kinda sorta agree with oblarq that its closer to counterfeiting than stealing, but stealing is still a hell of a lot closer to describing it than "borrowing". Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i kinda sorta agree with oblarq that its closer to counterfeiting than stealing, but stealing is still a hell of a lot closer to describing it than "borrowing". Fair enough. The morality isn't really what's relevant when defining it, though - what's important is the impact it has on sales. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i kinda sorta agree with oblarq that its closer to counterfeiting than stealing, but stealing is still a hell of a lot closer to describing it than "borrowing". But the problem with counterfeiting is that the fault lies solely with the counterfeiter and there is no monetary trade for internet piracy. Since we also use the term pirate for anyone who illegally downloads a immense amount of pirated material and counterfeiting doesn't encompass their guilt in the matter, I believe that it isn't an appropriate term. This is an unique phenomenon of a digital age and should be considered in its own class, IMO. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i kinda sorta agree with oblarq that its closer to counterfeiting than stealing, but stealing is still a hell of a lot closer to describing it than "borrowing". Fair enough. The morality isn't really what's relevant when defining it, though - what's important is the impact it has on sales. Why is that? This isn't business law, it is criminal law we are talking about. Morality does come into play considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i kinda sorta agree with oblarq that its closer to counterfeiting than stealing, but stealing is still a hell of a lot closer to describing it than "borrowing". Fair enough. The morality isn't really what's relevant when defining it, though - what's important is the impact it has on sales. Why is that? This isn't business law, it is criminal law we are talking about. Morality does come into play considerably. What matters is how hard this hits Crytek, not how much time the guy who leaked it should serve. I'd argue that even morally it's closer to counterfeiting, too, if you want to argue that. Not that it really matters. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This isn't business law, it is criminal law we are talking about. Well, it's almost always covered in civil law, as I understand it, ie you get sued for piracy rather than arrested unless there are very unusual circumstances. That's why it not being stealing is significant, as stealing is enforced by police while rights infringements are enforced by the rights holders, in civil court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This isn't business law, it is criminal law we are talking about. Well, it's almost always covered in civil law, as I understand it, ie you get sued for piracy rather than arrested unless there are very unusual circumstances. That's why it not being stealing is significant, as stealing is enforced by police while rights infringements are enforced by the rights holders, in civil court. Nope. I suggest you buy a dvd movie with the FBI warning (instead of a pirate copy where the warning has been deleted). Same thing in Europe, certainly in Nordic countries where criminal and civil proceedings can be handled simultaneously (like they were in the Pirate Bay case). You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Stealing implies that the victim loses possession of the thing that is stolen. I'm not sure if this is actually the case, or if it's become that way as a part of the rationalizations of piracy. Googling the definition often comes up with someone taking property without paying for it. Why would "property" not include intellectual property. Because honestly, I've never understood why people get their panties in such a bunch when people DO refer to piracy as stealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Piracy is much closer to counterfeiting than to stealing. Not really, as it doesn't take a team of 100+ people years to make currency. I'd say it is a lot closer to stealing than counterfeiting. Counterfeiting (which isn't restricted to money, by the way) is illegally imitating/producing a product. Stealing is taking it from those who have already made it. Piracy quite clearly falls in the former category. In fact, it's often grouped with counterfeit goods in studies. It's almost never grouped with theft, because the economic impact is much more comparable to that of counterfeiting than of theft. I don't give a monkey's. Piracy is unacceptable, you can dress it up however you like. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Stealing implies that the victim loses possession of the thing that is stolen. I'm not sure if this is actually the case, or if it's become that way as a part of the rationalizations of piracy. Googling the definition often comes up with someone taking property without paying for it. Why would "property" not include intellectual property. Because honestly, I've never understood why people get their panties in such a bunch when people DO refer to piracy as stealing. because they're filthy theives and they don't want to accept that they're no better than any other type of theif. It's a matter of justification of ones own actions. They know its wrong, but its okay, because its not "really stealing", etc... It's bullcrap excuses. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 When the relationship between PC developers and PC gamers starts to mirror a hostage situation, it's time to get out of the market. To wit, pinning the blame on Crytek for this is breathtakingly stupid. I wasn't necessarily yelling at crytek, but at the PC publishers in general who seem to have decided that Demo's are just not worth it, or ONLY for multiplayer value as a beta. My comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't think it's fair to call random users pirates just because they downloaded a copy of the game. piracy is releasing cracked games. it has become an issue with the developers only because of it's proportions. can anybody tell me whether a person may be charged with theft if he didn't steal anything but somehow came into possession of stolen goods or not? Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't think it's fair to call random users pirates just because they downloaded a copy of the game. Sorry but what should they be called otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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