HoonDing Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 you almost make it sound like BG never happened seriously, they dropped the ball BG was good for it's time but nowadays I couldn't play that turd for 5 minutes. So in 20 years from now, all current games will be turds as well? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) kotor 2 has the best writing of any bioware game. oh crap. planescape torment has the best writing of any rpg game. there, that's a better statement. edit: I finished baldurs gate 1 last week, its not a turd, it just looks like one. Edited February 11, 2011 by entrerix Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ... I think that this thread deserves to have this posted. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 and calax wins the thread. good find Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 butbutbut... Bio is in both, I don't understand But if I share them, you guys wouldn't have anything to talk about. such a tease! Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What would be an example of great writing in K2? Kreia, HK-47. TBH, I can't find an example of bad writing. bad writing is not so hard to find in kotor2, but is a different flavor o' bad than were kotor incarnations. visas mar? *shudder* young writers frequent indulge in philosophical exposition and self-indulgent introspection, but chrisA ain't that young no more. such shortcomings is less/non apparent in a game likes ps:t 'cause the setting actually benefited from the philosophy-for-dummies approach. overall, kotor2 writing were very good, but there were some exceptionally bad stuff as well. ... side note: making darth nihilus sounds like an adult from a charlie brown cartoon were an incredibly stoopid idea. not bad writing, but am just saying... HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) butbutbut... Bio is in both, I don't understand But if I share them, you guys wouldn't have anything to talk about. such a tease! Bio is good at writing dialogue but sometimes they have a brain fart and write some seriously retarded things. TBH anything uttered by Shepherd in ME2 is pretty much an example of bad Bio dialogue while Mordin and Legion had some good lines. Edited February 11, 2011 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 anything uttered by Shepherd in ME2 is pretty much an example of bad Bio dialogue while Mordin and Legion had some good lines. wow, that would qualify Bio for Hell but what about heaven? Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Oh come on, look at the distance the relay is from the Citadel itself - that's not at all realistic, especially according to the figures given in the codex. In addition, it's not following any "doctrines," the numbers follow logically from the projectile speeds and ship speeds (which is mentioned in the codex) - it makes no sense for dreadnaughts to ever be on top of each other. Sorry, but if you're asking Sovereign to just chill back and relax while taking pot shots, and for the Alliance to run away from the Citadel in order to engage at a "proper range" when some seemingly invincible force is heading right for them (one that happily plows through other ships without blinking an eye), then you're being absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 that doesn't count! Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What would be an example of great writing in K2? Kreia, HK-47. TBH, I can't find an example of bad writing. Shouldn't the credit for HK-47 be given to Bio, Obs is just continuing the same shtick? Kreia was indeed a stand out character in K2, but the only one on par with characters in K1, plus she's a crazy old bitch with an incomprehensible philosophy and constant whining, how anyone can believe the PC wouldn't strangle her in the first 10 minutes is beyond me. Gromnir is right, Visas was the worst, by far. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't think character concept is the same as the actual writing. If it was, writing isn't even worth hiring people for. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 But they're just continuing in the same style, I don't think it's much improved or anything. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 KOTOR 2 doesn't have Carth! That's a huge plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 But they're just continuing in the same style, I don't think it's much improved or anything. the kotor version o' hk-47 were a one-trick pony with very little actual character development. the kotor2 version considerably more development and were better written. however, as games such as motb reveal, chrisA and obsidian can becomes far too concerned with the character concept 'stead o' developing that actual character, so am not certain how much o' a pass we is gonna give 'em in this instance. regardless, wrath is wrong, at least in part. no doubt we can all name movie and comic characters that has been vastly improved by a new writer taking over the authorship duties... doesn't happen so much with novels, but is common in other media. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I see Shepard as a cheesy 80s action hero. That way his lines work really well. He was hilarious overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) HK-47 in KotOR 1 was one big joke that wasn't all that funny. In KotOR 2 he actually has some interesting discussions about the story/characters and other themes that get talked about a lot in this game. As for Kreia... ugh, I'm not starting this argument. She's more complex and interesting than the entire cast of KotOR 1 IMO. EDIT: Visas was cringe-worthy, I agree. Edited February 11, 2011 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 btw, shep is necessarily gonna suck compared to virtual all other characters in the game. shep has to be written so that he can be good, bad, aggressive, passive, friendly, and abrasive all at the same time. not only does shep have to be vague and general enough so as to work equal well as good and bad, but the good and bad gotta be broad enough to work for the variation 'tween Gromnir's and wrath's and tales individual notions o' good and bad. mordin is bioware's character... can be distinct and defined. shep is Your character, and You is the multitude o' game purchasers. is a dead-end approach 'cause it can never be truly fulfilling. complain 'bout shep is valid, but people seems to ignore the fact that shep cannot actually be much better than he is. the approach to development o' shep is so necessarily broad as to make it impossible to makes anything beyond a mediocre character outta him/her. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I see Shepard as a cheesy 80s action hero. That way his lines work really well. He was hilarious overall. He does have his "I WANT YOUR BADGE!" "YOU CAN'T HAVE MY BADGE!" moments. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) "Except for the fact that KotOR2 has better writing than pretty much any game BioWare has ever made." No it doesn't. It's writing is average. And, your two big examples of its great writing are examples why; Kreia = a rip off of a certain PST character and a dumbed down version. kreia is okay as a villain but she is one of the most one dimensional, obvious characters ever that is - for no reason -f forced on the player depsite being a bad guy out to destroy the PC. And, her stupid psycho babble is the type that amaeture dumbnut 'pyshocologists' would spout. She's at least as shallow as Marek was but at least Marek was supposed to be shallow. HK47 = Great character written and created by BIO that all KOTOR2 do was more of the same. Obsidian only gets quarter credit for him. BTW, those whoc laim HK47 is somehow 'improved' in KOTOR is jokin'. He's the same. Nothing has changed. What HK is a better version of Minsc. On the whole, while Obsidian's writing is solid, it is vastly overrated. And, KOTOR is amongst its worst examples too. Stick with praising MOTB as awesome Obsidian writing as KOTOR2 writing is merely 9slightly) above average. Edited February 11, 2011 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) What would be an example of great writing in K2? Kreia, HK-47. TBH, I can't find an example of bad writing. Shouldn't the credit for HK-47 be given to Bio, Obs is just continuing the same shtick? Kreia was indeed a stand out character in K2, but the only one on par with characters in K1, plus she's a crazy old bitch with an incomprehensible philosophy and constant whining, how anyone can believe the PC wouldn't strangle her in the first 10 minutes is beyond me. Gromnir is right, Visas was the worst, by far. "On par?" The characters in KotOR1 were all flat and boring, with some *really* insipid dialogue (Carth, I'm looking at you), with the possible exception of Jolee who was legitimately well-written and even subverted a few of the standard Star Wars tropes. KotOR1 in general is lacking in insightful dialogue, and generally just plods along the beaten path of the "light side good dark side bad" with each character reflecting their alignment. Kreia blows every character in KotOR1 out of the water, and if you really didn't like the character I guess that's too bad for you, because I found Kreia's dialogue to be absolutely outstanding, every line of it. Then, in addition, you have Atton, who is an incredibly interesting character and a really cool take on the Han Solo-esque scoundrel, HK-47, who goes far beyond what he was in the first game (yes, it's a continuation of the personality, but the lines are unequivocally better written and the character is more fleshed out in the second game), Mira, and Atris. Even Handmaiden, Mical, and Visas, while not as good as the rest, have their moments. And, if you want to include all the cut content, Bao Dur has some really cool stuff towards the end. Kreia = a rip off of a certain PST character and a dumbed down version. kreia is okay as a villain but she is one of the most one dimensional, obvious characters ever that is - for no reason -f forced on the player depsite being a bad guy out to destroy the PC. And, her stupid psycho babble is the type that amaeture dumbnut 'pyshocologists' would spout. She's at least as shallow as Marek was but at least Marek was supposed to be shallow. The fact that you think Kreia is out to destroy the PC means you didn't really pay attention to any of the dialogue at the end of the game. She's *much* deeper than that. And one of the great additions Kreia added to the game was by offering an alternative motivation for Revan's actions in the first game, retroactively adding depth to what was previously a pretty binary character. Edited February 11, 2011 by Oblarg "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) snip What he said. I couldn't agree more. KotOR 2 might have been unfinished but even then it's miles ahead any Bioware game in terms of story and character. Edited February 11, 2011 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I hurt my hand pounding your fist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp10 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Little off-topic but And, if you want to include all the cut content, Bao Dur has some really cool stuff towards the end. What kind of stuff? I never saw any dropped content with him even though it always seemed he was meant to somehow die at Telos part two . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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