Slowtrain Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Bioshock was another one of those games that had awesome potential but ended up falling flat in the implementation. Awesome art design, music and setting don't excuse a crappy story or bad gameplay. To me is was the gameplay that really hurt Bioshock. Primarily, as a shooter it wasn't very good, but it didn't really offer enough non-shooter gameplay to offset that failing. SS2, DX1, and even FO3 were all mediocre shooters as well, but they offered enough interesting non-shootery gameplay to offset their failings as shooters. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well i expect DE to be like Bioshock, except it'll have inventory. Good enough for me since the only problem i had with Bioshock was the lack of difficulty. They shouldn't have put in Quciksave if they had those vita chambers. NO crashes or any bugs in my playthrough. 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 i agree with what slowtrain just said, but I still really liked bioshock and appreciate it for what it did right. its not as good as SS2 or Deus ex, but its a hell of a lot better than most console games. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well i expect DE to be like Bioshock, except it'll have inventory. Good enough for me since the only problem i had with Bioshock was the lack of difficulty. They shouldn't have put in Quciksave if they had those vita chambers. NO crashes or any bugs in my playthrough. HR will also feature interactive dialogues and multiple approaches to situations beyond gun/fire/ice/electricity. I have a personal problem accepting Bioshock as a good game. The best I can do is say that it had good bits and bad bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 i agree with what slowtrain just said, but I still really liked bioshock and appreciate it for what it did right. its not as good as SS2 or Deus ex, but its a hell of a lot better than most console games. I'll certainly agree that Bioshock wasn't a terrible game but it had a lot fo questionable ( to me) design decisions that made the game much less interesting. For example, in SS2 "research" was an entirely different gameplay mechanic than shooting. One can certainly make the argument that SS2's "research" was nothing more than a foozle hunt, but it was still a different mechanic from the shooting and added variety to the gameplay. In Bioshock "research" was streamlined into a shooting mechanic, only instead of pointing and clicking with a "gun", one pointed and clicked with a "camera". I'm sure some people think that was an improvement, but for me it was just one of many ways BS went out of its way to be less interesting than its predecessor. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well i expect DE to be like Bioshock, except it'll have inventory. Good enough for me since the only problem i had with Bioshock was the lack of difficulty. They shouldn't have put in Quciksave if they had those vita chambers. NO crashes or any bugs in my playthrough. I don't think it was the resurrection chambers in and of themselves that were the problem. SS2 had them as well. The difference was that in SS2 using the res chambers had an in-game cost while in BS they had no in game cost. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 i think the vita chambers should only have been enabled on easy difficulty. just my 2cents Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Vita Chambers are the least of Bioshock's worries. I always just quickloaded instead of using them. I think most people have enough self control to not use them if they don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Vita Chambers are the least of Bioshock's worries. I always just quickloaded instead of using them. I think most people have enough self control to not use them if they don't want to. Same here. Considering the complaints about the developers sticking to close to the original I have my doubts that it will be like Bioshock. Or maybe it's just a hope since a DE/Bioshock hybrid doesn't sound too appealing. DE it's a game that can stand on it's own legacy, I'm hoping it will be an improved version of the original. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 For example, in SS2 "research" was an entirely different gameplay mechanic than shooting. One can certainly make the argument that SS2's "research" was nothing more than a foozle hunt, but it was still a different mechanic from the shooting and added variety to the gameplay. In Bioshock "research" was streamlined into a shooting mechanic, only instead of pointing and clicking with a "gun", one pointed and clicked with a "camera". Remind me how the research worked in SS2. It's been so long that I can't remember, but I seem to recall it being primarily finding and combining different chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) That and a lot of waiting. One thing that they should have lifted from SS2 was the class system, being able to do everything with no specialization was kind of boring. Edited January 7, 2011 by Purkake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You needed research skill (you got one skill for 'free' on hydroponics to research Toxin A), time and sometimes chemical(s) for SS2. The primary trouble with Bioshock is that it got every bit of gameplay character streamlined out of it in a succession of focus tests and iterative designs to make it appeal to as broad a base as possible. It really shows in some situations- the inconsistent weapon upgrade stations for example- that entire game systems had been arbitrarily and not particularly subtlely excised at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Classes ? You mean the most unbalanced thing in SS2? 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm surprised they had classes to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Classes ? You mean the most unbalanced thing in SS2? It's not like they couldn't have balanced them. I don't mean the kind you pick at the beginning, but just some choices along the way on how to specialize. Giving you some benefits and penalties or just not having access to the most powerful stuff if you choose to be the jack of all trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 One thing I stumbled on that I'm not sure how many people are unaware of.. The "AskJJB" youtube clips where JJB answers various questions from the DeusEx boards.. Whether the questions and answer be that interesting or not... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Vita Chambers are the least of Bioshock's worries. I always just quickloaded instead of using them. I think most people have enough self control to not use them if they don't want to. You must be insane to think that. PC gamers have absolutely no self control. 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Vita Chambers are the least of Bioshock's worries. I always just quickloaded instead of using them. I think most people have enough self control to not use them if they don't want to. You must be insane to think that. PC gamers have absolutely no self control. I don't, did the same thing. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I was referring to gamers on all Bioshock-compatible platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 @HK: Yep, you had to find various chemicals that were stored on each deck to research the various alien otems found around the ship. I'm not saying it was a great gameplay mechanic, but at least it offered variety. I thought the classes were pretty decently balanced in SS2. The Navy class was perhaps a tad more generally useful with its collection of skills, but I often took the marine class when I was in a more a mood to fight. I will agree that the skills were unbalanced: specifically hacking was too powerful and the last tier of standard weapons (the assault rifle) was too powerful. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 From what I remember, the main complaint was that PSI was over/underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 From what I remember, the main complaint was that PSI was over/underpowered. Despite doing many playthroughs of SS2, I never made much use of PSI, but iirc it was kind iof a pain to use and not really useful enough to bother with. The fwe times I tried to really focus on psi, I always rain ot of psi-hypos really fast and had to fall back on standard weapons anyway. That massive wrench was awesonme, btw. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 A lot of the Psi powers were useless. The useful ones though (Invisibility especially) were incredibly useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Deus Ex video Preview Brief appearance of it's skill selection and grid based inventory. Edited January 12, 2011 by Bos_hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronicler Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The most of the psi powers were either outright useless or barely cost effective compared to the alternatives. However the 5th tier powers are all game breakers. You can finish most of the game with just hack+wrench+tier 1 psi attack. Ironically this also gives you a lot of space for inventory too :D IG. We kick ass and not even take names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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