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Example of AP's 'very VERY good' writing:

 

Dialogue Choice: Professional = making fun of characters' professional = lolz for all

 

Yeah, you don't get what an example is don't you?

 

It's an example. You write an example with a direct fact (Don't know how I write that best in englisch)

 

You know, something that actually happened in the game and not just some random generalization which isn't true.

 

 

@Overlord: I would argue that the combination is bad. Also all personalities are normal. Not one charachter is over the top in terms of personality EXCEPT for the design. Sie and Stephen have eccentric personalities but I don't remember one dialog where they really were unbelievable. Also while the story was mediocre. It was the good kind of mediocre in terms it was coherent and the whole game is in part a homage to the spy movie gerne in general. What I found kind of really good was that Nina was actually the one that burned you. It's a really good way to avoid a clichee and makes actually kind of sense.

 

But I guess that's a lot of opinion so I understand where you comming from. I agree with you on mostly everything else.^^

 

Also about the ending: There are several ones. For example you can join Leland or betray him or. And there are several variations depending on your choices. What was exactly so horrible about it? It can be a little unsatisfaing though. But a ride into the sun. Well, it's also part of the hommage. And it's not like major plotpoints were unresolved like in KOTOR2.

 

Also the last mission varies immensly depending on your choices.

Edited by C2B

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I forgot about multiple endings, so I guess I might take back that comment. Without giving away spoilers, though, I'll just say that the ending I got was very anticlimactic. Riding into the sun may be a homage to the spy genera, but I found it rather unsatisfying.

Edited by Overlord Bob

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I forgot about multiple endings, so I guess I might take back that comment. Without giving away spoilers, though, I'll just say that the ending I got was very anticlimactic. Riding into the sun may be a homage to the spy genera, but I found it rather unsatisfying.

 

I can understand that. It was a bit lame for me too.

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Sarcasm aside, is there even a slight chance someone will convince you AP is a good rpg? :p

 

No, he's not here to debate, he's here to troll.

 

Pro-tip: they stay if you feed them.


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Example of AP's 'very VERY good' writing:

 

Dialogue Choice: Professional = making fun of characters' professional = lolz for all

 

Yeah, you don't get what an example is don't you?

Volo is referring to an actual dialogue choice. It's a bad example, as Parker (who Thorton refers to as a 'janitor') takes no umbrage at the suggestion he's a janitor and actually says it would be a good guess later on in the conversation. You can make it an insult, but only if you follow up the initial professional choice with a suave (?) choice, iirc.

 

I felt like a major problem with the game was that it couldn't decide how serious it wanted to be

That's probably the biggest criticism I'd make. It either needed to stay as a 'serious business' spy game or go the more stylised route fully. As it stands having some things realistic and some not is a bit of an uncomfortable blend.

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Bloodline's C&C sucked. It's true, I heard it on the codex once.

 

While I mostly disagree on the Codex since their standards are unreasonably high (what? I can't just stop doing the main quest and instead reinvent myself as a journalist? DAMN YOU OBSIDIAN! DAMN YOU!), and they're selectively oblivious (Fallout's flaws aren't as bad as Dragon Age's flaws or Mass Effect's flaws for.. some reason), I have to agree on that one.

Bloodlines doesn't really have C&C, just a choice in the ending like Deus Ex. Underwhelming, but then again, Bloodlines strong point was atmosphere, not gameplay.

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Example of AP's 'very VERY good' writing:

 

Dialogue Choice: Professional = making fun of characters' professional = lolz for all

 

Yeah, you don't get what an example is don't you?

Volo is referring to an actual dialogue choice. It's a bad example, as Parker (who Thorton refers to as a 'janitor') takes no umbrage at the suggestion he's a janitor and actually says it would be a good guess later on in the conversation. You can make it an insult, but only if you follow up the initial professional choice with a suave (?) choic

 

How was that an insult? It was a clear assessment of thornton regarding Parker's job and not meant with any insulting attempt. Parker didn't take it as such. It wasn't even spoken insulting.

 

Charachter assessments based on real life jobs when someone is working a very special sort of job is something that is frequently used.

 

 

Also, do you want to insult the job as a janitor? Without it most buisnesses just don't work. Sure it doesn't need a degree but its far from an insult. :lol:

 

 

 

If he said something like this sarcastically: So, how does it feel to be a janitor?

Yes, then it would be insulting since its clearly meant as an attack on the person. Didn't happen here.

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Well, yeah, bloodlines is my favorite game, but you only make two choices in it, what vampire clan you want to be, and who will you ally with. I especially hated the part where you HAD to say to Lacroix that you saw Nines in front of that mansion. Now that was low, Bioware low. But, the game had other strengths so its fine.

 

Also, why can't people understand the concept of taste? "This guy played it 3 times and still didn't like it! Thats means its bad!" or "This guy played it 2 times and liked it, that means its good!" Those are just subjective opinions, and forcing them as objective view on things is just wrong.

 

What I would say is that game obviously has its strengths, as it is liked by some people, but also has its downsides as its disliked by others. But there are no objective opinions, not really, its just a matter of taste, preference.

 

Also, please don't feed the trolls. Unless we develop technology that lets us see into the future, you can't form an opinion of something you only saw a small portion of.

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"Bloodlines doesn't really have C&C"

 

yes, it does, and it has way more of it than AP does.

 

 

"How was that an insult?"

 

Oh, please. It was an insult made to make fun of the guy's 'job'. 'Yuk yuk, I thioguht youw ere the janitor, yuk yuk!" It's menat to put the guy down. Not exactly fitting with the so called 'professional' line of dialogue. Very poor writing.

 

 

"Unless we develop technology that lets us see into the future, you can't form an opinion of something you only saw a small portion of."

 

Ridiculous. People make these kind of judgements all the time, ansd it's called using common sense and paying attention. We all do. It's how we decide what games to try out, what movies we watch, what books to read, what tv shows to sit down infr on ot the boob tube.

 

How many people here have read a Harlequin romance novel? How many here who haven't yet have labeled them simple trash? I bet quite a few.

 

I've played AP, I've read the reviews, I've read spoilers, I've read posts from both pro and anti APs so I have more than enough information to thumbs up or thumbs down it.

 

P.S. Labveling someone a troll for having a different opinion is hilarious. Then again, i find it much easier to label someone than actually discuss things. Apparantly, you guys to do.

 

P.S. I've been on the Obsidian baords for eyars, and I'm not goiung anywhere sinc, overall, I like Obsidian just fine even if AP is a subpar game. *shrug*

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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It's not Bioware that made Bloodlines, it's Troika.

 

I know. What I wanted to say is that that the story was as linear as stories in bioware games. No real choices and no real consequences except for those two I mentioned.

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Volo mad, Volo BASH! Take a deep breath and fix those typos :D


Hate the living, love the dead.

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"Volo mad, Volo BASH! Take a deep breath and fix those typos :D "

 

Nah. that post is harmless. You wanna see me bash? Go to the Codex.

 

 

"What I wanted to say is that that the story was as linear as stories in bioware games. No real choices and no real consequences except for those two I mentioned."

 

L0LZ BL has tons of C&C. Wayyyyyyy more than AP does that's for darn sure


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"Bloodlines doesn't really have C&C"

 

yes, it does, and it has way more of it than AP does.

 

 

"How was that an insult?"

 

Oh, please. It was an insult made to make fun of the guy's 'job'. 'Yuk yuk, I thioguht youw ere the janitor, yuk yuk!" It's menat to put the guy down. Not exactly fitting with the so called 'professional' line of dialogue. Very poor writing.

 

 

"Unless we develop technology that lets us see into the future, you can't form an opinion of something you only saw a small portion of."

 

Ridiculous. People make these kind of judgements all the time, ansd it's called using common sense and paying attention. We all do. It's how we decide what games to try out, what movies we watch, what books to read, what tv shows to sit down infr on ot the boob tube.

 

How many people here have read a Harlequin romance novel? How many here who haven't yet have labeled them simple trash? I bet quite a few.

 

I've played AP, I've read the reviews, I've read spoilers, I've read posts from both pro and anti APs so I have more than enough information to thumbs up or thumbs down it.

 

P.S. Labveling someone a troll for having a different opinion is hilarious. Then again, i find it much easier to label someone than actually discuss things. Apparantly, you guys to do.

 

P.S. I've been on the Obsidian baords for eyars, and I'm not goiung anywhere sinc, overall, I like Obsidian just fine even if AP is a subpar game. *shrug*

 

Argh, why do I have to get into such arguments:

 

1. Where do you get that? Seriously do you have numbers? Or are you taking that thing out of your ass (sorry for the rude language) The only thing that I can say about AP is that it has the most choice and reactivity than all other games I've played in its playtime. I don't know if theres other games that have overall more, though. . Completly different dialouges only to name the simplest. Your allies that come to help when you need it or provide you with Support like the mixed cocain in the brayko fight. The way how different things can end.

 

2.I gave my reasoning why its not. If you decide to actually speak about the scene instead of gibberish I'll be here to discuss your pont -"It's poor writing W

Edited by C2B

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"You can't go around insulting it just because it makes you feel good."

 

You thjink i spent $70 on a agme just so i can come on the geeknet and waste my time criticizng it? L0LZ I buy games to enjoy them. I didn't enjoy AP 'cause it's not a well made game. It's not even in Obsidian's top 3 games and they've only made 5 games (2 of which are expansions).

 

Sorry, but I wanted to like AP. It did not deliver. Don't blame me. Blame AP.

 

 

"1. Where do you get that? Seriously do you have numbers? Or are you taking that thing out of your ass (sorry for the rude language) The only thing that I can say about AP is that it has the most choice and reactivity than all other games I've played in its playtime. I don't know if theres other games that have overall more, though. . Completly different dialouges only to name the simplest. Your allies that come to help when you need it or provide you with Support like the mixed cocain in the brayko fight. The way how different things can end."

 

Tons of games have as good or better C7C than AP including Obsidian's own NWN2 OC, MOTB, and KOTOR2. Then there's the FOs, BG2, NWN, HOTU, JE, ME series, DA, BL, ARC, TOEE, and probably another 100 or so I didn't mention. AP's C&c is simply nothing special.

 

 

"2.I gave my reasoning why its not. If you decide to actually speak about the scene instead of gibberish I'll be here to discuss your pont -"It's poor writing W

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"It's poor writing. the 'prosessional' stance is supposed to lead Thornton into acting like a 'profesisonal'. Last i checked 'professional' doesn't mean lightly joking - even it's sarcastic - about someone's profession. Some of the worst writing ever."

 

Actually even professionnals do joke like that. You sound like the Comic Book Guy from Simpsons "Worst writing ever". ROFLAMNO R000FLES.

 

Someone sure needs to update that Volourn posting .jpg from Codex to make it fit the world with AP. You are like a broken record that just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating...

 

Also why don't you give us examples of those superior c&c from other games instead of just repeating the same **** all over again. Oh yea, you don't have to because you are a "fact" spewing troll :p

Edited by Flouride

Hate the living, love the dead.

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I think this game was unfairly reviewed. I actually think it's good. The reviews of various game websites put me off from purchasing by about a month and I'm really impressed by how wrong the critics were. This game is very entertaining and I would love to see some DLC and a sequel in the future. I'm disappointed buy how much influence the main media has on the future of gaming. Just wanted to let you guys know you did a good job and a few bugs here or there are not what makes a game bad. If anything this game is way better than the huge upset Modern Warfare 2 and Mass Effect 2 were, and belongs among the ranks of Dragon Age and Fallout 3. Thanks again.

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"It's poor writing. the 'prosessional' stance is supposed to lead Thornton into acting like a 'profesisonal'. Last i checked 'professional' doesn't mean lightly joking - even it's sarcastic - about someone's profession. Some of the worst writing ever."

 

Actually even professionnals do joke like that. You sound like the Comic Book Guy from Simpsons "Worst writing ever". ROFLAMNO R000FLES.

 

Especially because he bases it on the professional state alone, not on the sentence himself.

 

But hey, I'm tired appearently it's the worst writing ever.

 

 

Live in your hateworld. Hope it fits.

 

 

Also, yes you still haven't named ANY fact ANY detailed example and ANY statement that isn't entirly oppinonated oh you god of C&C. Bye.

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How was that an insult? It was a clear assessment of thornton regarding Parker's job and not meant with any insulting attempt. Parker didn't take it as such. It wasn't even spoken insulting.

Yes exactly, that's why even though it is an example (ie someone could be insulted by being called a janitor) it is a bad example because it's obvious Parker wasn't.

 

Don't worry, you'll never convince Volo it's a bad example, one of his charms is his absolute faith in his own opinions even in the face of incontrovertible proof he's wrong.

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Well, yeah, bloodlines is my favorite game, but you only make two choices in it, what vampire clan you want to be, and who will you ally with.

 

Wrong. Feed the dieing girl your blood in the blood bank you get her as a goul. Then choose to keep her around too long and watch her die. Jeanette, ally the gargoyle to the anarchs or kill it etc.

 

"Bloodlines doesn't really have C&C"

 

yes, it does, and it has way more of it than AP does.

 

Wrong Volo it doesn't. AP has a lot more C&C then Bloodlines, it just doesn't seem like it because most of it makes little difference.

 

Live in your hateworld. Hope it fits.

 

Live in your fanboy world. Hope it fits. :p

Edited by Bos_hybrid

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Feed the dieing girl your blood in the blood bank you get her as a goul. Then choose to keep her around too long and watch her die. Jeanette, ally the gargoyle to the anarchs or kill it

 

Sure, but what other example of a choice with a consequence can you name? I can name only one more - if you kill the cop at the Art show, he is replaced with his brother thats the same guy only with glasses. Other than that, I only remember some moral choices that never get mentioned again.

 

I don't know about other people, but for me, just the choice is not that important, its the consequence, or even just mentioning of the choice you made that really means something and change the experience. For example, ME2 C&C was horrible, it didn't matter what choices you made in ME1 since the consequences were all the same, but the fact that the game has mentioned all the choices you made in ME1 meant a lot to me, really helped establish your character from ME1.

 

Now, AP was completely built around the idea that all of your choices have a consequence, either by changing the story, or just altering the dialogue. Even the smallest stuff like, in what order do you do the missions in Saudi can greatly change the conversations you have with your handlers before the missions. Mina can be a completely different person depending on what she thinks of you, Heck will be angry if you don't go to him first etc.

 

As we speak I'm on my 3rd playthrough of bloodlines, and the only difference between the 3 was the vampire clan, and the fact tht I missed the goul on my 1st playthrough. Malkavians have different dialogue, and from time to time character may mention in one sentence how your crazy. Nosferatu have to hide and sometimes people tell you how your ugly. But the story is linear, dialog choices limited to one response more often then they should be etc. C&C of AP on the other hand did wonders for me, every playthrough felt unique, and I think I started skipping dialogue only at 6th or 7th playthrough, because you never know what your going to hear, how a character is going to react in a particular situation depending on the stance, the reputation, particular thing you did he really did/didn't like, dossier etc. And for example, in ME 1 and 2, after I played with a male and a female, I started skipping almost all of the dialogue.

Edited by Spiked

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Most "consequences" in RPGs are flavor text anyways, but in AP, flavor text applies to almost all the lines of a character, so it really feels different. Just discovered today that Parker is really, really defensive about his role as a "custodian", since my Thorton belittling him lead him to talk in much details about his work, which gained me a second bit of Dossier about him that I didn't have in my first play-through.

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Live in your fanboy world. Hope it fits. :ermm:

 

Replace that with "world in where I hate bashing and overrating" and it fits really. I just usually see the good and the bad in everything a game has to offer. Honestly, it's clear to me that the game has serious issues in direction (which I blame on yet again a midway designer change), balance, level design, and and and. Personally it's around an 8 in my book. Then again there's not many games I consider over an 8.5. :o

 

At the same time I also try to analyze things in context and how they were intended. Which is not that easy then.....

 

 

Well, anyway. At the moment I manly defend AP because of the bashing it gets overall at the moment. In 6 years when the game is somewhat of a cult game I'll be bashing fanboys. You'll see XD.

 

At the moment. Yeah, fanboy isn't that wrong.

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