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Deus Ex Machina

The Conspiracy Against Alpha Protocol

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Okay, maybe the title is overly dramatic, but I feel that it's appropriate considering that AP is an espionage game.

 

Here's my problem.

 

I have noticed that the majority of complaints that reviewers have had with AP (framerate issues, graphical issues, animation issues, combat mechanics issues, A.I. issues, etc.) were present in several other games such as The Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. However, all those games were highly received by the same reviewers that lambasted AP. Whether or not the reviewers had a personal grudge against Sega or Obsidian is uncertain, however, the hypocrisy is.

 

Does anyone else see the bull **** in all this?

What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

 

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.

 

Also, if you don't like the reviews, don't read them. It's that simple. Instead of making up bull**** theories about how Destructoid or IGN or any other game reviewer is a secret member of the Illuminati and the Bildenburg group, you could just grow a pair and not give a **** about reviews like 99% of other people.

 

Constantly comparing AP to some of the greatest games made in the past 5 years, AND then stating that all the video game reviewers are secretly Reptillians really doesn't help sway people to your side.

Edited by Paraclete

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What bugs exactly Paraclete? AP is relatively bug free, please tell me these serious issues.

 

As for Oblivion being perfect and bug free I can name over 1000 bugs, just look up the unofficial patch. Mass Effect had many bugs, most still not fixed, just check out the Mass Effect Wiki. Dragon Age has countless unresolved bugs, Awakenings makes the game unplayable for most fans. You compare AP to these highly rated yet seriously bugged games then I am sorry to say AP is relatively low on bugs.

 

 

FYI reviewers are Reptilians, they are not human and have cold black hearts. Never listen to their lies, trust in game demos and your friends opinions first. :(


~R.I.P. Adam aka "Ild

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Does anyone else see the bull **** in all this?

Yeah, but I see BS in what you're on about.

Have you played Mass Effect 2? Whether a person likes the action-focus trend of many RPGs these days, ME2 deserves all the praise it gets. There are niggling issues here and there, but overall it reeks of pure quality. The same can be said for those other games ('cept maybe Oblivion, which I thought was over-hyped).

 

I don't think it is a conspiracy, but ALOT of the reviews have criticised it for being being too "dice heavy". Well Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3 are also Dice heavy. In FO3 I can aim at a guys head and do no damage.

 

Then a gamespot review said it lacked "character and soul"...wtf?

 

If the comments were that it is a bit buggy or too short, I could understand. But to criticize it for using a gameplay mechanic used by other games is just ridiculous. It is not a conspiracy, but it is pretty well known that "AAA" games from publishers with big media and PR divisions generally get an upturn in review scores.

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I think Oblivion, Fallout 3 or the Mass Effect games all deserve higher scores than Alpha Protocol. Production values matter, and a clunky combat system should hurt your score - especially in an action game.

 

Fallout 3 has BROKEN combat. Mass Effect shooting is EXACTLY like AP. The gameplay mechanic is the same.

 

The AP AI is pretty poor, but then again, the FO3 AI is just plain stupid.

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AP is a great game , i am having a blast with it. Is really bad that the majority of gamers let be influenced by unfair reviews and haters.

 

BTW< bugs/ i didn't see any in my playthrough.

Edited by Alpha

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What bugs exactly Paraclete? AP is relatively bug free, please tell me these serious issues.

 

As for Oblivion being perfect and bug free I can name over 1000 bugs, just look up the unofficial patch. Mass Effect had many bugs, most still not fixed, just check out the Mass Effect Wiki. Dragon Age has countless unresolved bugs, Awakenings makes the game unplayable for most fans. You compare AP to these highly rated yet seriously bugged games then I am sorry to say AP is relatively low on bugs.

 

 

FYI reviewers are Reptilians, they are not human and have cold black hearts. Never listen to their lies, trust in game demos and your friends opinions first. :(

Granted I haven't seen a LOT of bugs, but the ones I have seen have been pretty game changing. I've had save/checkpoint bugs quite a few times(issues with the game not saving progress, or just not saving at all), a few AI bugs where they would just stand in place or where they were still on high alert even after a re-load.

 

It feels a lot like Oblivion when it was first released mixed with some Mass Effect. It's fun, but it has its share of bugs(PS3 version), and other than the clumsy gun controls, its actually pretty fun.

I think with some patches it can actually be a really good game, and the PC version I'm sure will have some great mods at some point.

Edited by Paraclete

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Bethesda games are vastly overrated these days. Both Oblivion and Fallout 3 suck compared to Morrowind.

 

Those games have so many problems, yet they were overlooked.

Edited by Libertarian

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I think Oblivion, Fallout 3 or the Mass Effect games all deserve higher scores than Alpha Protocol. Production values matter, and a clunky combat system should hurt your score - especially in an action game.

 

Fallout 3 has BROKEN combat. Mass Effect shooting is EXACTLY like AP. The gameplay mechanic is the same.

 

The AP AI is pretty poor, but then again, the FO3 AI is just plain stupid.

 

No, ME shooting (the original ME) is not exactly like that in AP - the controls in ME, while nothing to write home about compared to the best shooters out there, are notably more responsive and crisper. The ones in AP are barely good enough that (for me) they don't detract from the game, but that's it. And neither of them compare well with the tweaked controls in ME2. On top of that, AP tries to use the same exact mechanics both for stealth-based shooting and all-out action, and they're not especially well suited to the latter.

 

I don't know what your objection is to the Fallout 3 system, but I never had any major issue with it... Regardless, Fallout 3 doesn't need to be a better FPS than Alpha Protocol to have a "better combat system", it just needs to have a combat system that suits the kind of game it is better than AP's system fits AP... and I think it does.

Edited by Mk1

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I have just played through AP, and enjoyed it,

but generally the reviews are right, the PC version has on metacritic currently 75 score, which is presisely what I think it deserves and would have given myself.

dated graphics, low production value and poor animation, the importance of those things varies very much from person to person, but it is only normal that a reviewer take those into account in the score, out of 10, AP lost at least 1 point due to this and it is only normal.

then 1 more point lost due to the poor AI, bit clumsy controls, the poor optimization, like the huge lag that comes from time to time when entering new areas(I know about the .ini fix, but even if the reviewers knew, they still had to take this into account in the score) and such.

 

now, there clearly were some haters as well, like one review for the xbox version that gave 20/100, and when you read it, it sounds like the game is completely brokem.

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I just registered to said that this game is getting a lot of unfair reviews its like people were expecting a MGS game or a Splinter cell. Well, you ****, read the bloody CASE, what it says? RPG, what?? RPG, Third person shooter this is not.

 

I think Oblivion, Fallout 3 or the Mass Effect games all deserve higher scores than Alpha Protocol. Production values matter, and a clunky combat system should hurt your score - especially in an action game.

 

Fallout 3 has BROKEN combat. Mass Effect shooting is EXACTLY like AP. The gameplay mechanic is the same.

 

The AP AI is pretty poor, but then again, the FO3 AI is just plain stupid.

 

No, ME shooting (the original ME) is not exactly like that in AP - the controls in ME, while nothing to write home about compared to the best shooters out there, are notably more responsive and crisper. The ones in AP are barely good enough that (for me) they don't detract from the game, but that's it. And neither of them compare well with the tweaked controls in ME2. On top of that, AP tries to use the same exact mechanics both for stealth-based shooting and all-out action, and they're not especially well suited to the latter.

 

I don't know what your objection is to the Fallout 3 system, but I never had any major issue with it... Regardless, Fallout 3 doesn't need to be a better FPS than Alpha Protocol to have a "better combat system", it just needs to have a combat system that suits the kind of game it is better than AP's system fits AP... and I think it does.

 

Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.

And in the other hand, why in the name of zeus, are you tryng to play this game as a shooter, its a damn RPG, Jesus.

Edited by LookAndRoll

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There is no conspiracy; (although there is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy(cycle) regarding newer games to look better than older games which causes costs to up which requires the developer/publisher to market to the largest audience possible.) Most game review companies write to please the largest audience possible so it certainly makes sense for these companies to change their review of a game in order to please the audience they are writing for.

Most of these people are not journalists either, from looking at the information most of them provide(on IGN,Kotaku,Joystic, ect) they seem to be average 20-30 year olds. Which is why some games are praised for the same reasons others are bashed for, qoutes taken out of context,quality(defined as how much a game does what it advertises to do/how much it has improved over similar games)ignored, numerical values, ect.

On an unrelated note, most reviews ignore the fact that Alpha Protocol is an rpg and do not complain about the gameplay and instead focus on other


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Currently the Nepreference system ranks as follows:

 

Mass Effect 2 > Alpha Protocol = Mass Effect > Dragon Age: Awakening > Dragon Age: Origins > a big void > Fallout 3

 

Fallout 3 is the only game that has taken me a ~year to complete (or how long it took for Broken Steel to get released on PS3... 9 months?). I completely lost interest in it twice, but came back both times to try to finish it. It's been gathering dust ever since, and I honestly don't see myself suffering through it again.

 

I feel like the guy seeing the naked emperor whenever people praise FO3, I really don't see what's the big deal - ok, the DLC was on a relative scale really good and the 3 I got were great value for money when compared with, say, DAO DLC, but that's about it.

 

I won't start thinking up conspiracy theories, but I think it's pretty obvious that some of the major U.S. review sites have approached Alpha Protocol with a definite negative bias, overlooking the positive aspects and overemphasising the negatives. I find the ones linked to on the official Alpha Protocol facebook page to be mostly quite fair (one was crossing over into fanboyish territory). The tearing is godawful, though, but I guess tearing beats the DAO judder we PS3ites got.

 

Oh yeah. There is something I like about Fallout 3. The CE lunchbox is fun.

Edited by Nepenthe

You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

 

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.

 

Here's the irony of your comment.

 

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

 

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

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issues such as production value(I have no idea what this is, but it seems to be how pretty the game is.)

Anyway, if a game developer does not want to deal with this they can either a. target a specific audience(Metal Gear) or b.(pending) Call reviewers out on their bull****(David Jaffe) dan dan daaaaaaan.


It's not Christmas anymore but I've fallen in love with these two songs:

 

http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=HXjk3P5LjxY

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I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've finally played AP and I can say that, IMO, the majority of criticism is unwarranted and hypocritical since many "AAA" games such as Mass Effect, Oblivion and Fable 2 have the same issues that AP has.


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Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.

And in the other hand, why in the name of zeus, are you tryng to play this game as a shooter, its a damn RPG, Jesus.

 

Did you even play this game? "Trying to play this game as a shooter?" Just what do you think the AP missions, which form 90% of the game, are?

 

Depending on your style of play, the vast majority of this game is a cover-based 3rd person shooter, or a 3rd-person sneaker a la the earlier Splinter Cells, with role-playing heavy conversations IN BETWEEN THE MISSIONS. The missions themselves are almost pure action, with the occasional conversation thrown into the major story missions, but not the side ones. Aside from choosing whether you'll sneak or not, and use lethal or non-lethal force or not, the biggest choices you make are whether you'll use a zip-line to get over a fence, or sneak into a shack to hack the gate computer instead.

 

None of this actually makes AP a bad game, but spare me your fanboy BS. This is an action game with role-playing elements, so naturally, people are going to focus on the action.

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Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.

And in the other hand, why in the name of zeus, are you tryng to play this game as a shooter, its a damn RPG, Jesus.

 

Did you even play this game? "Trying to play this game as a shooter?" Just what do you think the AP missions, which form 90% of the game, are?

 

Depending on your style of play, the vast majority of this game is a cover-based 3rd person shooter, or a 3rd-person sneaker a la the earlier Splinter Cells, with role-playing heavy conversations IN BETWEEN THE MISSIONS. The missions themselves are almost pure action, with the occasional conversation thrown into the major story missions, but not the side ones. Aside from choosing whether you'll sneak or not, and use lethal or non-lethal force or not, the biggest choices you make are whether you'll use a zip-line to get over a fence, or sneak into a shack to hack the gate computer instead.

 

None of this actually makes AP a bad game, but spare me your fanboy BS. This is an action game with role-playing elements, so naturally, people are going to focus on the action.

 

First of all, I'm no fanboy, this is my first Obsidian game.

Second, this is an Action RPG, not a shooter with rpg elements, big difference mate.

The "action" is just the means to an end, to build a character and have fun with it.

You could play as stealth spy, go punching and CQCing people in the face or go guns blazing, but you got to understand that you have to build the character first to do so.

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

 

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

 

meh.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

 

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

 

meh.

 

Considering its Obsidian when wasn't it. There are most of these issues but they are exterrageted. They are not worse than in most other Games. So, if you don't go into a negative mindset into this game there is a good chance you will like it.

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

 

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

 

meh.

 

I think Mass Effect 2 created an expectation in some people, that AP, because on the outside it looks like a 3rd person shooter, should control in the same way. The fact that there's old school style rpg calculations running things under the hood really throws them off. Perhaps that isn't fair, but hey, it's their $60-$100, if they've gone off that style of game, they're free to buy something else.

 

On the other hand, if you go into AP accepting that it's an RPG first and foremost, that stats will determine your success rather than reflexes and twitch skills, and are happy with that sort of game, you're bound to enjoy it.

 

Really, on the 360, the graphics are better than what Dragon Age did (the PC versions would be another debate). And the AI is on par with ME1. Meh :)

 

As for a conspiracy... doubt it. Sega's not a major player anymore, but there's no reason for gamesites to put them and their delicious advertising dollars offside for fun.

Edited by Baeus

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

 

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.

 

Here's the irony of your comment.

 

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

 

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

Huh?

 

Where did I criticize Deus Ex? That's in my top 5 games of all time

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

 

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.

 

Here's the irony of your comment.

 

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

 

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

Huh?

 

Where did I criticize Deus Ex? That's in my top 5 games of all time

 

He did mean the USER "Deus Ex Machima"

 

Also Deus Ex? Really? Well, your just ignoring here that Deus Ex has many of the same complaints as Alpha Protocol. MANY. At release it mostly got a rating of 80-85 and it wasn't seen as a polished game. Its one of my favourite games though, too.

 

I see here a very different fanboy.

Edited by C2B

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Okay, maybe the title is overly dramatic, but I feel that it's appropriate considering that AP is an espionage game.

 

Here's my problem.

 

I have noticed that the majority of complaints that reviewers have had with AP (framerate issues, graphical issues, animation issues, combat mechanics issues, A.I. issues, etc.) were present in several other games such as The Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. However, all those games were highly received by the same reviewers that lambasted AP. Whether or not the reviewers had a personal grudge against Sega or Obsidian is uncertain, however, the hypocrisy is.

 

Does anyone else see the bull **** in all this?

 

not hypocrisy... 'least not intentional. an obsidian developer once observed that crpg fans is those most forgiving of bad mechanics. perhaps he shoulda' anticipated the ap backlash, no?

 

is ap a crpg or a shooter? well? am thinking that obsidian created their own elevated standard compared to the other crpgs you mentioned. obsidian made a game that looks and feels like a shooter, even if it doesn't exactly play like one. as such, in regards to mechanics and ai issues, ap is being judged by many with the shooter standard, rather than the more relaxed crpg standard.

 

as for ap's lack o' polish and its technical issues...

 

*shrug*

 

haven't played ap, so am not gonna speak to tech issues. nevertheless, am thinking that whatever flaws one could identify in mass effect and some o' the other AAA games you mention, lack of polish were not a primary issue.

 

ap is a genre bending game, and unfortunately that means that it is being judged as both a crpg and a shooter. you think it is unfair that ap should be judged so? maybe you is right, particularly if you is primarily a crpg fan. maybe you is wrong. in any case, am not seeing any conspiracy. heck, we don't even genuine see a problem with the disparity in the reviews.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Ugh, sometimes I can't stand video game fans. If I defend a game, I'm instantly a fanboy.

 

Anyways, if any review deems this a shooter then stop reading right there and completely disregard their awful, ignorant opinion. It's a shame journalism standards are so pathetically low in the game industry but them's the breaks when you have angry nerds (Jim Sterling aka Destructoid's troll reviewer) getting picked up by Metacritic.

 

Obsidian doesn't have clout with major gaming review sites/mags. That's not a conspiracy, that's fact. Ubisoft doesn't have a fraction of the talent that Obsidian does yet most of their games receive moderately high to high scores. Tech demos that masquerade as games, writing that's creatively at a 6th grade level, sequels that supposedly improve on those tech demos but clearly don't, games that ship with game breaking bugs that never get patched, games with missing content (we couldn't finish it in time. honest!) that magically gets a 150KB paid DLC unlock a month later. I love Rockstar but it took them how many games to finally get the shooting mechanics to an acceptable level? The cover system in Red Dead Redemption doesn't work any better than AP's. I've probably encountered more glitches in RDR than AP.

 

Obsidian is one of those devs that (probably) doesn't have the money to fly reviewers out, put them in posh hotels for 3 days just for a small, half a page preview article. Obsidian (probably) doesn't have the advertising dollars to invest with these people to ensure not glowing but positive reviews.

 

This is what happens when you have Sega as a publisher. That company has been so out of touch with gamers for so long that it's hilarious.

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