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The Conspiracy Against Alpha Protocol


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#61
edgarcuk

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Don't the trolls generally use the word "fanboy" as support or opening word?...

#62
Alphaboy48

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Did you even read the first sentence, Mr Apparently-fanboy-is-my-favorite-word?


Look I have nothing against you, but if you take a step back and look at this thread and just read with an objective eye, you will start laughing, trust me.

#63
C2B

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Did you even read the first sentence, Mr Apparently-fanboy-is-my-favorite-word?


Look I have nothing against you, but if you take a step back and look at this thread and just read with an objective eye, you will start laughing, trust me.


You don't get the thread do you. (Most) of the members here made a joke about it. It isn't about a conspiracy. It is just a point out to all the bashing it gets.

For critic points that many other games have too who are way higher ranked.


Of course, there "could" be someone who is thinking about an actualy conspiracy, but I see nobody particular in this thread.

#64
Oner

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I did, made 1 or 2 conspiracy jokes too, but I don't get worked up over stuff like this and call everyone a fanboy.
There's a lot of things people go overboard about on this forum and on every other too. If that's what they want, good for them, I don't care.

Besides, fanboyism is like (un)professional reviews and being called a noob: unremarkably passť.

#65
Thorton_AP

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.


Here's the irony of your comment.

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

Huh?

Where did I criticize Deus Ex? That's in my top 5 games of all time


I never said you criticized Deus Ex. I was talking about the user "Deus Ex Machina" (which you even partially bolded and underlined.

You said that he was being a fanboy because there are clearly issues with AP, while you had none with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3. You failed to recognize that maybe he didn't have issues with AP.


As an update, I played the game last night and at the end, my Steam said that I had been in the game for 586 minutes for that current session :sorcerer:

Loving the game so far. The subtle (and not so subtle) responses to your actions are just awesome.

#66
Vahkn

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My personal theory on this is that many reviews are copied from other reviews. Net result, a couple of bad reviews basically got plagiarized into 20 bad reviews.

Like many I was hesitant to buy the game after reading some of them, but I'd say it was well worth the money. It's too subjective to compare, but i'd rank AP alongside games like deus ex, vampire the masquerade, mass effect etc and that's some pretty legendary company...

Certainly the complaints about enemy AI seem very inaccurate. It's no worse than any other rpg/shooter I can think of and far from being gamebreaking as some reviews seemed to imply.

#67
Hassat Hunter

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Yeah, it's better than, say, ME2's.

However since there enemies didn't have to deal with you sneaking (they always know where you are), patrolling, identifying fallen bodies, call in backup, be in different alert states etc. it's not so noticable how much more lacking the AI there is, since their task is far simpler than in AP.

Somewhat the same Deus Ex has to deal with, making enemies not all too smart not to make it impossible to stealth, and then people claim it's "bad AI".

Sure it can use improvements, but it's pretty hard to make them smart and deal with all those factors and still allow stealth. And not make them obviously cheat (which they already do, as they all know your location once the alarm goes off, like ME2 foes).

#68
Cogar66

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My personal theory on this is that many reviews are copied from other reviews. Net result, a couple of bad reviews basically got plagiarized into 20 bad reviews.



I actually read somewhere that they do that, unfortunately this was before I installed Linux so it'd be impossible for me to dig this up.

#69
unskilled-

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

meh.


I think Mass Effect 2 created an expectation in some people, that AP, because on the outside it looks like a 3rd person shooter, should control in the same way. The fact that there's old school style rpg calculations running things under the hood really throws them off. Perhaps that isn't fair, but hey, it's their $60-$100, if they've gone off that style of game, they're free to buy something else.

On the other hand, if you go into AP accepting that it's an RPG first and foremost, that stats will determine your success rather than reflexes and twitch skills, and are happy with that sort of game, you're bound to enjoy it.

Really, on the 360, the graphics are better than what Dragon Age did (the PC versions would be another debate). And the AI is on par with ME1. Meh :p

As for a conspiracy... doubt it. Sega's not a major player anymore, but there's no reason for gamesites to put them and their delicious advertising dollars offside for fun.


What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.

What AP did was fail to meet everybody's expectations. Yes they were expecting an RPG, but they were also expecting a fairly decent shooter/stealth game to go along with it. That is where AP dropped the ball.

I'm not a hater or anything, I actually like AP. The conversation system and the fact that your choices have consequences, unlike Mass Effect's "you win regardless of what you do" outcome, is ground breaking and raises the bar on how much choice is to be given to an individual player when determining how the story unfolds.

That being said, the whole shooter part of the game failed to even come close to the bar set by Mass Effect 2. The stealth part of the game is essentially a poor man's Splinter Cell or MGS (take your pick).

So yeah, I guess my expectations were too high coming in. Is that a bad thing?

#70
Deadly_Nightshade

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What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.


What? You're joking, right? :ermm:

#71
unskilled-

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What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.


What? You're joking, right? :lol:


Yes thats right, I'm joking. Certainly games of ME2's polish, quality and production values don't do anything to raise expectations of other games.

Just like how the original Half-Life didn't raise expectations for future FPS games to become more cinematic, nor how MGS for the playstation didn't raise expectations for games everywhere to have high quality voice acting and cinematic cutscenes.

Instead of cherry picking my post for a single statement just to make a dumbass remark, why not put some effort into it and actually tell me your opinion.

#72
ozzybob

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Thanks for all the feedback.

It would seem that, much like Deadly Premonition, AP has garnered a cult following. I loved Deadly Premonition. I'm picking up AP as soon as I get off work today and I'll be sure to post my impressions as an RPG player and as a vet gamer.

I'm sure I'll find that the criticism is not entirely justified.


Hi guys, new to these forums. When I first played I kinda enjoyed it. It's been the three playthroughs since that the true gem that the game is has revealed itself. Not too many AAA games get released bug free, and as long as they aren't game breakers they don't send me into a rant.

#73
C2B

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What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.


What? You're joking, right? :lol:


Yes thats right, I'm joking. Certainly games of ME2's polish, quality and production values don't do anything to raise expectations of other games.

Just like how the original Half-Life didn't raise expectations for future FPS games to become more cinematic, nor how MGS for the playstation didn't raise expectations for games everywhere to have high quality voice acting and cinematic cutscenes.

Instead of cherry picking my post for a single statement just to make a dumbass remark, why not put some effort into it and actually tell me your opinion.


Problem is here Mass Effect 2 is as much as an crpg as most adventures. The mechanics are shooter through and through.
Also, if you believe it or not, there are people that value other things over production value and polish.

Not to mention there are tons of more polished and better quality 3rd person shooters out ther

Edited by C2B, 10 June 2010 - 12:49 AM.


#74
dan107

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I think that a lot of the criticisms of AP are justified, but the review scores are way too low. No way does it deserve less than an 8. It certainly could've been more polished, and there probably should've been more emphasis on the spy elements rather than making it primarily a level based shooter, but it's still a damn good game.

And it grows on you too. Once you play it a few times, or read a few posts about other people's playthroughs, you realize that the reactivity to the player's decisions is mind-boggling. No game I've ever played had a story that accounted for so many permutations. Not even ME2 or DA can match AP in that department.

#75
blackwolfe

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Mass effect 2 was good and fun, but it was nothing over the top, nothing special. Mass effect 2 is simple and the AI is simple. It didn't need any good AI. The combat mechanics although fun, were not anything new to be honest. Same old same old.

Yes, I love mass effect 1 and 2 but they didn't bring anything new onto the table.

#76
Ulicus

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I think scores between 7-8 are perfectly fair for this game.

What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.


What? You're joking, right? :*


Yes thats right, I'm joking. Certainly games of ME2's polish, quality and production values don't do anything to raise expectations of other games.

Just like how the original Half-Life didn't raise expectations for future FPS games to become more cinematic, nor how MGS for the playstation didn't raise expectations for games everywhere to have high quality voice acting and cinematic cutscenes.

Instead of cherry picking my post for a single statement just to make a dumbass remark, why not put some effort into it and actually tell me your opinion.

The thing is that though ME2 was a great game -- and certainly one that does have better production values and polish than AP -- it was extraordinarily limited as a CRPG. You can't raise the bar on what a genre should be by divorcing yourself from the genre as much as you possibly can. Half-Life wouldn't have raised expectations on future FPS games if it had been a third person game, after all.

#77
C2B

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I think scores between 7-8 are perfectly fair for this game.


There is another problem here when we score this game. Comparison.
I see multitudes of problem more in the original ME and Fallout 3 than I see in AP. Yet those games scored near/over 90.
This kinda destroys the entire rating system. Makes it unreliable.

Reviewers should rather just focus on pointing out good and bad points of a game rather than score it. It just doesn't add up.

#78
Orchomene

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I think scores between 7-8 are perfectly fair for this game.

What Mass Effect 2 did was raise the bar on what a CRPG should be. When the bar is raised, expectations are raised.


What? You're joking, right? :*


Yes thats right, I'm joking. Certainly games of ME2's polish, quality and production values don't do anything to raise expectations of other games.

Just like how the original Half-Life didn't raise expectations for future FPS games to become more cinematic, nor how MGS for the playstation didn't raise expectations for games everywhere to have high quality voice acting and cinematic cutscenes.

Instead of cherry picking my post for a single statement just to make a dumbass remark, why not put some effort into it and actually tell me your opinion.

The thing is that though ME2 was a great game -- and certainly one that does have better production values and polish than AP -- it was extraordinarily limited as a CRPG. You can't raise the bar on what a genre should be by divorcing yourself from the genre as much as you possibly can. Half-Life wouldn't have raised expectations on future FPS games if it had been a third person game, after all.


Hum... Each one his/her opiinion, but I almost forced myself to go to the end of ME2.
Why ? Very awful story, bad story telling, flat dialogues, railroading all the way, boring combat, boring runing in corridors, ridiculous bosses.
I don't play shooters, so I can't compare. But ME2 is probably the worst game I've bought the last two years. Also, after having seen what has been said of some FPS (MW2) and seen someone playing it, I can understand that ME2 may seem to "raise standard" for some people.
Yet, I like many of the Bioware games. The stories are far from original, but I can enjoy playing their games. But Me2, raising RPG standard ?
It's ridiculous.
It's like saying that Independance Day has raised cinematographic standard like it is a masterpiece movie.
With ME2, you get flashing and pretty images, but nothing else.

#79
Amentep

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What AP did was fail to meet everybody's expectations.


It hasn't failed to meet mine, please quit making statements about my opinions.

I played and loved Mass Effect 2, but come on this game is not Mass Effect Gaiden: Alpha Protocol. Comparing them is a useless endeavor; and given that they're vastly different games in what they're trying to do any comparison is only going to scratch the surface of the good and bad in either game.

#80
Oner

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What AP did was fail to meet everybody's expectations.


It hasn't failed to meet mine, please quit making statements about my opinions.

He said everybody's expectations, not anyone's.




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